Women and Armor!

[Zedd702]

I want some frickin thigh-highs and skirts for my guy but they just keep giving me weird looking tights. I love putting my beautiful elezen male in skimpy clothing!

What is the name of that hand gear?

Also the Saurian boots are nice Thigh-highs boots

[HakuroDK]

I respectfully disagree. I prefer the female NIN AF, but that's just me.

If that is unacceptable, I propose an alternative. Add those same holes to the male AF gear. Uniformity doesn't have to be "All gear must be based off the male design". It could well be based on the female design as well.

[Remilia_Nightfall]

If that is unacceptable, I propose an alternative. Add those same holes to the male AF gear. Uniformity doesn't have to be "All gear must be uniform and based off the male design". It could well be based on the female design as well.

I don't think male ninja would have much success trying to sexually distract people with their manboobs. At best they would draw aggro and serve as improvised offtanks or something.

And no, you can't use a "female design" as the default design. As I have already wrote a few pages ago, females (both in RL and ingame) are lucky enough to be able to wear all kind of gear without looking stupidly ridiculous. Sure, some gear looks better on them as it's clearly designed for females (see my t-shirt example above. Females CAN wear a male T-shirt, but the opposite is not true unless the man wants to look retarded), but even the "Best Man's Suit" looks good on a female character.

Male designs are, in general, more "neutral" than female ones. Female ones are "optimized" for females, if we can say so.

[Defteros]

If that is unacceptable, I propose an alternative. Add those same holes to the male AF gear. Uniformity doesn't have to be "All gear must be based off the male design". It could well be based on the female design as well.

100% this.
I was so much disappointed when I saw how the Scylla Robe was on male characters >_>

[Felis]

A woman can't wear the same piece of armour as a man (example: the Ninja AF) without being forced to expose their chest. A sexual element is introduced that is not present for the man. That's objectification. That's reducing someone to their physical characteristics. I don't care if you don't accept that or even if you don't understand it. It just is.

Google for Kunoichi.

Lady Chiyome used what she knew from the ninja clans to train her students, but she also took advantage of their female strengths. She taught them to be seductresses, dancers, messengers and sometimes even assassins.

http://www.worldofjapan.net/2011/12/...irst-kunoichi/

[LineageRazor]

I wasn't going to bother with this, since you said you were "out of the thread", but since you're clearly not, here we go!

Males are protected by the "ridiculous" clause because that's how it is. Ever noticed how many females wear the recently introduced male wedding gear, and manage to look cool in it? Ever seen a male char looking cool by dressing with the female dress?
Thought so.

This undermines your argument by bringing up another important double standard. Have you ever thought about WHY women who crossdress are fine, and men who crossdress are the subject of ridicule? It just is - but why is it? It's because a woman who crossdresses is becoming more "manly", and is therefore seen as approaching a superior state of being (acceptable), while a man who crossdresses is becoming more womanly, and is therefore seen as approaching an inferior state of being (unacceptable). I'm not immune to this, but I recognize it for what it is.

Also, for all your talk about absolute territory, it brings up another important double-standard prevelent in media. You say that women are blessed with the ability to make it look good, but what you really mean to say is FANTASY women are so blessed. Women in fantasy are held to a body standard that men are not. Men can come in all kinds of shapes and descriptions and still be lead characters. You can have men that are fat, thin, ugly, handsome, pretty, muscular, scrawny, and so on. Heck, for many men (particularly those with their own poor self-image of their own bodies), having a milquetoast nobody turn out to be a great hero or villian is a powerful wish-fulfillment fantasy.

Women, though, need to both be badass AND look good. While there ARE examples, it's very, very rare to come across women in any fantasy media that are ugly and/or fat, but still badass AND in a leading role. Your vaunted absolute territory doesn't look so great on a four hundred pound woman, now does it?

Men can look like anything, and still be awesome. Women can be awesome, but only if they look attractive as well. Both of these attitudes satisfy a male perspective, even if there are plenty of women who are able to enjoy them as well.

This is reflected in the Primals as well. The four male primals? Old man. Musclebound giant. Long fish. Demon. The two female primals? Hot babe. Hot babe with feathers. All badass, but the double standard is still clearly present in the design choice.

[HakuroDK]

snip

I get that for gear like the Coliseum gear, for sure. I'm talking AF gear. The gear that is Job exclusive that is earned from Job quests. The only ninja set of gear outside of AF is the Fuma set. Both the AF1 and AF1.5 sets of Ninja armor have that hole. Now again, I do not have any interest in wearing or oggling this clothing, but it does seem rather silly to have that gaping hole in armor that is supposed to be taken seriously. Same in the DRG armor.

I get that Kunoichi exist. But not every female ninja is trained in the art of being a Kunoichi, and as far as I am aware, the teachings for Ninja in the Ninja job quests are gender neutral, they do not teach the arts of using one's body to seduce. Ergo, all the gaping hole in the NIN AF serves is to expose bare skin, which can very easily lead to detection.

I get that many want that "seductive ninja" look. I do. I just think that there should be a different set of armor that is not critical to the story which grants this rather than getting female ninjas who don't wish to have a window into their cleavage to buy a bunch of glamour prisms and farm LotA for a ninja suit that doesn't have those things.

[Casper]

Jesus christ why do so many people fighting for sex balance want to erase any sex differences ? They are not the same thing. Whether you want it or not, men and women ARE different, period.

Also what other said. Still a game, still have a business to run, still have limited ressources. I'm not against them doing some more "manly" armors for female, but obviously the sexy stuff is going to come out first -- just because that's what teh MAJORITY expect and you have to satisfy the majority before you start thinking about what this tiny minority will be offended by.

Edit: as a lalafell ninja female, i would obviously love to have the option to remove the stupid gap in the body armor, as it serves no purpose. I'm sure some options will turn out though that will be just what i want. The job just came out, most of the gear couldn't be redone and is shared with mnk at the moment -- chill and have some patience. We will get better options.

[HakuroDK]

Jesus christ why do so many people fighting for sex balance want to erase any sex differences ? They are not the same thing. Whether you want it or not, men and women ARE different, period.

I get the sexy stuff. For me, that's not the issue. There is sexy armor in the game and I want nothing more than there to be even more of it about! It's just that when it's an important piece of storyline gear, that's kinda where I draw the line. Storyline gear should be serious and uniform. As there are players who wish to put more sex appeal into their character's designs, there should be more options, so long as those options are not tied into the plot of the game.

[LineageRazor]

I don't think male ninja would have much success trying to sexually distract people with their manboobs. At best they would draw aggro and serve as improvised offtanks or something.

Actually, yes. If a male ninja thought it would work, they could and WOULD sexualy distract people with their manboobs - and other manparts, for that matter. It may shock and disgust you, but there are men and women who find such manparts to be appealing and distracting!

As I covered earlier in this thread, ninjas were PRACTICAL. They do what they need to to get the job done. They don't HAVE uniforms (sexy or otherwise), they have clothes. Just like clothes non-ninjas wear. If they need to use sex to get the job done, they will, male or female, and there were almost certainly targets of assassination who preferred men. The whole idea of a uniform at all betrays what ninjas were all about.