Women and Armor!

[Aegis]

Yes, it's the ARR artbook. While I understand what you are saying, please check the recent racial "poses" they introduced for each race. You can clearly see how the female Miqo'te ones have a more "energetic" and "cutesy sexy" feel (especially the one with the hands behind their head. Who would suddenly stand in that pose? It's not relaxing at all). Female humans are different - seems to me they have a more "reserved" and "shy" vibe. Might be just me, tho.

I think then that I can modify my position to the extent that I don't think Miqo'te were designed to be 'idolesque' (if that's a word) but they have been developed that way. They were based on Mithra, but the dev team have, since release and particularly since 2.0 release, been developed to be more overtly provocative. Which is kinda my point.

I guess we are down to semantics. I feel it would be pointless to keep arguing about this.

Agreed, we've both made our cases and neither is going to persuade the other. We can agree to disagree.

I am from Italy. Yes, I know, some prominent political figure kinda created a rather peculiar image of Italy, but what I witness everyday is that feminism movements are really strong here, which causes companies to treat women with extreme caution since they would like to avoid troubles. This, in some companies, creates the exact opposite problem since males are the ones ostracized.

I will admit to a bit of good old-fashioned EU racism. When you said Italy I immediately thought "No way are the Italians gonna have a close gender pay gap". Turns out it's the best in Europe at 1%. Sylvio really didn't put gender relations in Italy in a good light. Who'da thunk the Germans of all people would be at 20%?

Also, Kudos on your english. I wouldn't have picked you as a non-native speaker.

[LineageRazor]

Try again. They are based on Mithra in XI which were not in any way fanservicey.

Waitwaitwait - hold the phone, here. I think you might be remembering FFXI through a bit of a nostalgia filter. Sexually dimorphic clothing was pretty common in FFXI, usually in that feminine versions of outfits would display some thigh (take for example, Paladin, Red Mage, Dragoon, most leather equipment sets as well).

And Mithra were VERY MUCH the "fanservice" race in FFXI. On Mithra, the thighs would scoop MUCH higher than on Hume or Elvaan, to an almost thong-like degree (google "FFXI Leather Vest Set" images and compare). Mithra also had the most revealing race specific equipment - and unlike this game where characters quickly outgrow RSE, in FFXI additional RSE was added at level 30, and then later on at levels 50 and 70 - many pieces best-in-slot for certain jobs and certain level ranges.

FFXI was not as tame as you seem to remember it being! Mithra may have been a bit more muscular and rugged than their wispy, stick-thin Miqo'te equivalents, but steps were definitely taken to make them the "sexy race". I don't disagree that Miqo'te get prodded a bit toward scanty clothing, but don't imagine that their precursors were any different!

Honestly, though, I don't have a problem with with the way FFXIV handles equipment. There's plenty of options to bundle up or to show skin as the player desires, and once you ding 50 you can dress pretty nearly however you want if best-in-slot gear doesn't suit your personal tastes. There are a few cases where I'm not happy with design choice (gawd, that DRG belly window...), but for the most part it's been pretty fair across genders - and when it's not, you can substitute other options.

[TheCurls]

The funny thing is that the belly window isn't the worst part of the dragoon AF. It's the fact that it's a harness and the black bra is entirely visible. That said, I still like the set.

[Aegis]

Honestly, though, I don't have a problem with with the way FFXIV handles equipment. There's plenty of options to bundle up or to show skin as the player desires, and once you ding 50 you can dress pretty nearly however you want if best-in-slot gear doesn't suit your personal tastes. There are a few cases where I'm not happy with design choice (gawd, that DRG belly window...), but for the most part it's been pretty fair across genders - and when it's not, you can substitute other options.

You can't get any gear that looks like the DRG AF but without the belly panel though. Or any gear that looks like the male coatee set.

Perhaps to get this back to one of my earlier points. It's not just the move towards gender dimorphism, it's the move away from the original aesthetic that was a bit more grounded, a bit more (I really want to avoid the word realistic because flying fire demons etc) ... gritty. At release, there were no weapons bigger than the Bardiche, and that was notable for its size. No glowy lightsabres of doom, no shoulder pads of epic manliness or battle-bikinis.

That was part of what I loved most about this game. It felt like a more mature, westernised, low-fantasy, FF game which is an aesthetic which is pretty rare. Sure, the palette was a little muddy but, along with the weighted animations, it felt more visceral, less floaty.

Now each patch brings more revealing gear, more gender-dimorphic revealing gear, foldy/shapeshifty weapons, more emo trenchcoats, more flashy disco-dance moves. If I squint when I'm wielding my Zenith Ninja weapon, I could be partipating in a 1990's dance off, complete with glow stick.

[Felis]

Those were whores. Hardly typical of Miqo'te as a race. The clothes they were wearing was underwear (which covers more than the Coliseum Armour btw). And before you say 'they were dancers' one of them explicitly stated they would have sex with you for money.

Miqo'te companion personality (from october 2010):

Miqo’te Female
A lady who knows what she likes, and likes a little bit of everything. Don’t be fooled by her coquettish manner and all-too-apparent charms; in her breast beats the fiery heart of a warrior. Not to worry, though, she’ll be gentle—assuming that’s what you like.

[Rbstr]

I like the idea that most of the gear should be roughly unisex and at least make some attempt at being practical. Especially raid gear and things focused around being a combatant.
But I also appreciate it being stylish sometimes. There are some more form fitting bits of armor. And armor, like harnesses, that, to me, feel like they belong even though they do expose some skin. Or the goatskin/toadskin breeches that fit sort of like low-rise jeans.

With the Noct Lorica: I didn't really care for the abs in particular or like to wear huge armor but I like that it exists! I was a big fan of the Noct pants as shorts/thigh-highs even though they aren't the most practical. When you think about the Lorica's big armored skirt-thing the pants did make quite a bit of sense.
The dragoon AF's belly-window is pretty silly to me.

It's fine to me that revealing outfits exist, especially certain glamor gear, but I do think items should look roughly similar between the sexes in most cases. If it's skimpy have it be skimpy on both. XIV does a reasonable job of this even if it's not perfect.
I really think the way the recent best-man stuff and plain skirt work is what they should keep doing. But they fell short on the bridesmaid dress: Make it all unisex-equipable, keep varying styles and skimpiness between sets, and let players choose for themselves.

[Aegis]

Miqo'te companion personality (from october 2010):

That's cherry picking a single NPC. What about Y'shtola, was she flirty or seductive?

The leader of the Sirens was, and she was Hyur.

[Arkine]

I'm in favor of gender-dimorphic. Some equipment should be unisex, but not all. (See Noct Lorica debacle)

If anything, I like how it was handled in XI.

[Felis]

You can't get any gear that looks like the DRG AF but without the belly panel though. Or any gear that looks like the male coatee set.

You can't also get a harness for female that look like the male vesion (leather straps instead of a bra and full open in the front). You should add harness to your list if you want female gears to look exactly like male gear.

[Aegis]

You can't also get a harness for female that look like the male vesion (leather straps instead of a bra and full open in the front). You should add harness to your list if you want female gears to look exactly like male gear.

I see what you're getting at and I trust I don't sound like a hypocrite when I say that I don't mind gear being altered for practicality's sake. (ie: you wouldn't want them bouncing around free while fighting). If I thought the belly panel or the coatee's neckline were there for any real practical reason I wouldn't have a problem with them. Whereas they're quite obviously there for a bit of tacky titillation.