Thread: Patch 2.45 December 9th

Originally Posted by Alukah

Well I've always thought that "MNK is higher DPS than NIN" more of people talking out of their rear instead of doing actual tests, considering people started saying that from day 1, perhaps SE has a real number.

Or they're doing something completely silly, we have no way of telling...until after the patch is out. Though as we all know, it'll take them until 2.5 or 2.55 to rectify it if it was a mistake.

Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Or they're doing something completely silly, we have no way of telling...until after the patch is out. Though as we all know, it'll take them until 2.5 or 2.55 to rectify it if it was a mistake.

I think it's more of a theoretical DPS vs practical DPS, you know your DPS will vary greatly depending on the mechanics you have to deal with, perhaps on paper NIN has higher (or the highest) potential DPS.

Actually I'm pretty sure it's this, in the live letter pretty much said the potential DPS was set high because of gameplay difficulty, as in they didn't intend many people to achieve that (just like monk) but many people are achieving it, so they're lowering the upper limit.

It honestly didn't make any sense for NIN to be on par (or higher) than MNK even if it's on paper, when they have to do much less to maintain constant dmg, huton and venom uptime is 100% even during mechs, while MNKs can lose GL3, plus MNK needs GL3 for dmg buff while NIN already got the same dmg buff through increased base action potency.

That class was too unbalanced IMO.

Oh well, we'll see a week after the update when everyone is back on MNK and DRG. No one is going to touch NIN with a 10 foot pole if the potential dps is lower than the other melee dps, it's just not worth it for the amount of effort NIN takes.

(If you think Huton and venom is the only thing NIN needs to max their DPS, you're delusional.)

Originally Posted by Kiroh

Oh well, we'll see a week after the update when everyone is back on MNK and DRG. No one is going to touch NIN with a 10 foot pole if the potential dps is lower than the other melee dps, it's just not worth it for the amount of effort NIN takes.

(If you think Huton and venom is the only thing NIN needs to max their DPS, you're delusional.)

I'd have to disagree. I'm loving NIN and will continue to play it no matter how much they nerf it. I love the fact that it uses daggers(since I love daggers) and doesn't need tools to cast magic *cough*. I can't wait to see the next dagger job, I pray it's DNC.

Originally Posted by Venos

I'd have to disagree. I'm loving NIN and will continue to play it no matter how much they nerf it. I love the fact that it uses daggers(since I love daggers) and doesn't need tools to cast magic *cough*. I can't wait to see the next dagger job, I pray it's DNC.

Still playing is one thing. Having a spot at the table for raiding is another. If you have no interest in raiding or only do so casually then it's not going to be an issue.

Originally Posted by Kiroh

(If you think Huton and venom is the only thing NIN needs to max their DPS, you're delusional.)

I'm comparing similar abilities between NIN and MNK, so likewise twin snakes and GL3 (the equivalent of huton + venom + high combo potency) aren't the whole part of the story for MNK, but they do play a major role and you cannot deny MNK has a much harder time keeping GL3 and twin snakes up while dealing with mechs, compared to NIN being able to keep huton up pretty much always.

We could go further comparing blunt/slashing debuffs, other debuffs, dots and actions out of cooldown, but my main focus was damage and skill speed buff. Ninja has a lower skill cap than Monk and their theoretical max damage should represent this.

Also, (bold part) food for thought

F: First off, about the Job balance. How do you plan to adjust the job balance moving forward? Especially regarding dragoon.
Y: For a lot of the jobs, there is a high skill ceiling and that’s rewarded with high DPS. There are two main ways we can change the dragoon to make it more balanced with the other jobs. One way is to increase its DPS output. You’ll often see dragons die, sometimes even twice in tough content from magic damage where other jobs are ok. (Crowd laughs) That’s not so funny to me. I’m not laughing about it. There are fights where it’s harder on a black mage, for example, than other classes, but there’s nothing really where you can’t take a black mage in it. For dragoon it seems there are fights where they are not included so we need to adjust to make sure that doesn’t happen.
F: Next is about ninja.
Y: Wait. To be more concrete about it… Before we added ninja, monk was clearly the better DPS but had a way higher skill ceiling so this difference was less of a problem. You’ll have to wait to see the particulars of how we’ll be buffing dragoon, but we’re going to try to make sure they can compete in endgame content. We will definitely be changing it so that dragoon is more in line with other jobs. To put it simply we will increasing its damage output and its pace. We’re also going to try to adjust it so that it doesn’t experience big dips in its dps. Specifically, “Heavy Thrust” buff will no longer need positional to be applied, recast timers and animation locks will be reduced further. These changes are coming in 2.45.

Originally Posted by dejavutwo

What I'm most interested in is the Stoneskin II. I wonder if it means SE is finally breaking away from the overly rigid "Every class must have exactly X skills and each skill must only be learned at level Y" regardless of if the class would be more fun/interesting with an additional skill or two.

They broke away from that with Arcanist and Rogue, which have more abilities than the other classes.