Relics coming to an end?

[Rhas]

Same. It would seal the deal on my unsubscription. It was also the nail in XI's coffin for me when they made AH trash superior to relic/mythic/emp. Sure they semi-fixed it ... eventually... sorta... but FF MMOs are waaaay too grindy to pull that kinda crap.

Gear trivialization is fine if it's easy-come-easy-go... but when you grind hundreds of hours, if not more, on what's supposed to be the lore's ultimate weapon it is a massive slap to the face for that time to be flushed.

IMO, you chose to grind it. What will be the difference if in fact they to include it in 3.0 but only enough to say... I see you got your <so and so> weapon. Please wait at the end of that long line over there for your next chance at your "Shiny New Toy"!

What would the difference really be?

Quitting over you *choosing* to grind something out as one of he paths to an end game weapon.... yeah lol. Have fun in your next game?

But seriously... if you are going to rage quit over something so measly... that wasn't even required for you to do... why are you even still playing in the first place? Better yet, why even bother playing MMO's because most of them do the completely same thing. New stuff comes out. Old stuff becomes irrelevant and the pattern repeats in an endless cycle. Do you expect things from Year 1 XIV to really be relevant say... 2 years... 3 years... 5 years down the line? If you can't even imagine/entertain/accept the *possibility* that things can start over from scratch when FF stops being ARR and changes into the next story Heavensward... Just not sure what to say to you to be honest other than to have fun in whatever your next "MMO Fad" may be. I don't remotely claim to know anything, but I am at least open to new possibilities and anything at this point is pure speculation.

Here you have the end of Tanaka's "vision" / "roadmap" for ARR and you have the start of Yoshi's "vision" / "roadmap" Heavensward.

[Sessurea]

So when the relic is ilvl 3000 u pro current relic people think new players are gonna grind atma,animus,novus,nexus, w/e other bs they can think of? It would be absurd.

[Deathscythe343]

So when the relic is ilvl 3000 u pro current relic people think new players are gonna grind atma,animus,novus,nexus, w/e other bs they can think of? It would be absurd.

This is exactly the point of why they will probably have everyone start on a fresh relic come expansion time.

[Avarghaladion]

So when the relic is ilvl 3000 u pro current relic people think new players are gonna grind atma,animus,novus,nexus, w/e other bs they can think of? It would be absurd.

By that logic new players shouldn't have to level to 50, or do anything that wouldn't put themat an instant level playing field with day-one veterans or... y'know.. anyone who actually enjoyed the game enough to invest the kind of time a relic takes. Nah, you're right and this RPG should play more like a FPS. It's totally unfair that anyone should ever have something better than someone else no matter how much harder or longer they worked on it. In similar keeping, all raid drops should be immediately handed out to all players regardless of raid progress, or if they've even cleared the raids. Every new character should start as a max ilvl in all DoW/DoM with all minions amd mounts and DoH/DoL can just be removed entirely.

Get real. It's absurd to imagine people getting rewarded more for doing less work than others ie. every aspect of SE's current "nerf early, nerf often, nerf hard" game model.

IMO, you chose to grind it. What will be the difference if in fact they to include it in 3.0 but only enough to say... I see you got your <so and so> weapon. Please wait at the end of that long line over there for your next chance at your "Shiny New Toy"!

What would the difference really be?

Quitting over you *choosing* to grind something out as one of he paths to an end game weapon.... yeah lol. Have fun in your next game?

But seriously... if you are going to rage quit over something so measly... that wasn't even required for you to do... why are you even still playing in the first place? Better yet, why even bother playing MMO's because most of them do the completely same thing. New stuff comes out. Old stuff becomes irrelevant and the pattern repeats in an endless cycle. Do you expect things from Year 1 XIV to really be relevant say... 2 years... 3 years... 5 years down the line? If you can't even imagine/entertain/accept the *possibility* that things can start over from scratch when FF stops being ARR and changes into the next story Heavensward... Just not sure what to say to you to be honest other than to have fun in whatever your next "MMO Fad" may be. I don't remotely claim to know anything, but I am at least open to new possibilities and anything at this point is pure speculation.

Here you have the end of Tanaka's "vision" / "roadmap" for ARR and you have the start of Yoshi's "vision" / "roadmap" Heavensward.

Except that MMOs that take this approach to the casual, disposal nature of their items either make the grind fun or prevent the items from being a whorish chore to get. Ideally they do both. SE does neither.

If you didn't choose to do relics, why critique obvious criticism of a blatantly flawed system? Alternatively, if you did take one or more to relics to Novus and think it's cool beans that it was a meaningless investment, why is your taste in game design so terrible? This is not "ooo sweet, I got the super shiney megapwnultra-wacker" -> gets nerfed -> "Oh well... that wasn't at all annoying or frustrating to get and it didn't feel in any way like work or a lazy attempt to string subscribers along." This is "After hundreds of hours... millions and millions of gil... and cocksmashing grind... I've got this Novus.... yay..." -> potentially gets nerfed to oblivion in less time than it takes the average player to complete the weapon in the first place -> "ffffffffffffff"

If they don't want people to be upset if/when they make insane grind rewards trash, don't make the effort they take completely disproportionate.

[Rhas]

Except that MMOs that take this approach to the casual, disposal nature of their items either make the grind fun or prevent the items from being a whorish chore to get. Ideally they do both. SE does neither.

Since when is grinding anything fun ;P (to be quite honest, the glow from them gives me migraines. I prefer the more subtly glow end game weapons like with UAT and i95 weapons)

I "ground" up to rank 40 to realize PvP gear was useless in frontlines. Did that make me rage quit? No. Was it upsetting? Sure, but I got over it quickly. Been doing it slow this time from 40-45. At least I got some glamours out of the equipment I purchased lol

Such is the life of online games. If I got mad over every little thing wrong with the way MMO typically operate, I would not be playing them and any time I did get mad enough I did quit them. For me, life's too short to worry about intangible online content that constantly evolves and changes. I will roll with the changes as they come good or bad. Lol I stuck with LOTRO up to Riders of Rohan if that's saying anything lol

[Nonsensicles]

The current relic grind is to get yourself a currently excellent weapon for current content.

That's what it's for. It's not for future content. It's for now. It build on existing stuff, but there's no reason for it to build forever. You're not doing it for forever, you're doing it for now. Once it's over, you'll still have a trophy for your efforts. No one will take your relic away from you, nor the accomplishments you made while using it.

Not forcing others to do what you did does not retroactively make your time wasted. It just means they can catch up and join in with what you're enjoying.

You are enjoying yourself, right?

[Yukiko]

When did we stop playing and when it has become a virtual work?
Isnt the main focus in a game to have fun? How can mindless grind be fun?
Brickwalls to content and lockouts, sometimes way to hard to enjoy... its rather turning into frustration than fun!

[Zumi]

If they continue the relics in heavensward I would expect the level 50 quests to be expedited in some way, to catch everyone up to the level 60 quests.

They may do something like, if you have a lv50 relic you can get right into the quest if you don't you have to grind X items to start the new 60 relic, already have the relic you can get started on the new upgrade quest right away.

[Avarghaladion]

Since when is grinding anything fun ;P (to be quite honest, the glow from them gives me migraines. I prefer the more subtly glow end game weapons like with UAT and i95 weapons)

I "ground" up to rank 40 to realize PvP gear was useless in frontlines. Did that make me rage quit? No. Was it upsetting? Sure, but I got over it quickly. Been doing it slow this time from 40-45. At least I got some glamours out of the equipment I purchased lol

Such is the life of online games. If I got mad over every little thing wrong with the way MMO typically operate, I would not be playing them and any time I did get mad enough I did quit them. For me, life's too short to worry about intangible online content that constantly evolves and changes. I will roll with the changes as they come good or bad. Lol I stuck with LOTRO up to Riders of Rohan if that's saying anything lol

I wouldn't personally be mad, I just wouldn't play anymore I just wouldn't play anymore if the time investment the game requires stops jiving with the results. I am amused, however, that we live in a world where FPS players are totally cool with horizontal progression unlocks and hyper long-term unlocks but people playing RPGs, which are -meant- to be long term adventures, get their panties in a twist if they can't have the same thing as a player who's played longer and harder than them. If someone actually cares, it's not impossible to do the same things players have already done, especially when the progression steps are already nerfed and nerfed again on a regular basis. Game's super simplistic as it is and a lack of anything long-term, content wise, would be a major turn off.

The current relic grind is to get yourself a currently excellent weapon for current content.

That's what it's for. It's not for future content. It's for now. It build on existing stuff, but there's no reason for it to build forever. You're not doing it for forever, you're doing it for now. Once it's over, you'll still have a trophy for your efforts. No one will take your relic away from you, nor the accomplishments you made while using it.

Not forcing others to do what you did does not retroactively make your time wasted. It just means they can catch up and join in with what you're enjoying.

You are enjoying yourself, right?

It's really not. Relic has consistently barely better than the super-easy to get alternatives and only ever really tied for BiS. If that's all they care about enjoying they can literally grab the next best thing and be no worse off. The only reason anyone does relic is because they keep getting better. You think anyone's gonna spend all that time upgrading a weapon that's a) not even the best they could get b) way harder to get than the on par or superior alternatives c) trash in the long run?
No disrespect on this part but I'd not equate grinding PvP to grinding Atma, or light, or materia. I get PvP has its own issues, however.

[Rhas]

I wouldn't personally be mad, I just wouldn't play anymore I just wouldn't play anymore if the time investment the game requires stops jiving with the results. I am amused, however, that we live in a world where FPS players are totally cool with horizontal progression unlocks and hyper long-term unlocks but people playing RPGs, which are -meant- to be long term adventures, get their panties in a twist if they can't have the same thing as a player who's played longer and harder than them. If someone actually cares, it's not impossible to do the same things players have already done, especially when the progression steps are already nerfed and nerfed again on a regular basis. Game's super simplistic as it is and a lack of anything long-term, content wise, would be a major turn off.

It's really not. Relic has consistently barely better than the super-easy to get alternatives and only ever really tied for BiS. If that's all they care about enjoying they can literally grab the next best thing and be no worse off. The only reason anyone does relic is because they keep getting better. You think anyone's gonna spend all that time upgrading a weapon that's a) not even the best they could get b) way harder to get than the on par or superior alternatives c) trash in the long run?
No disrespect on this part but I'd not equate grinding PvP to grinding Atma, or light, or materia. I get PvP has its own issues, however.

To answer your question. a) yes b) yes and c) yes. The reason being is that at some point I will probably finish one. I have no real interest in finishing it but I most likely will. Why, you may ask? Because I'm a completionist ;P I may absolutely hate trying to get something and may put it off until the last extreme very last minute... but I do like collecting things. There are also many people just like me as well.

IMO, the relic progression only has so much of a use and its almost outlived its current usefulness.

I would not be surprised if we received a completely revamped "relic" system that is so unlike what we are used to that there could possibly be no comparison to the current ilevels.

For example, They could actually implement a system such as we have seen in a previous FF title where we swap out materia to add in different attributes where we could learn special moves/abilities. Or have a system where your weapon simply has a base damage and literally levels up. The higher the level, the more materia( or maybe even the variety) could possibly open up.

Any such variation could and possibly would invalidate the current system, imo. Again, speculation. Any change they make to the current system could make whatever has been done irrelevant.