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  1. #1
    Player
    Amanduz's Avatar
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    Amanduz Ace
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    Tonberry
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    Thaumaturge Lv 50

    Loosing Customer based on Loot System in Bahamut Coil

    Dear SE-Team,

    Shortly to my person. I play FF14 already quite long, before I used to play also FF11 and I suggested in FF11 to change the loot system on HNM from tradeable loots to rare/exe loots which are bound to avoid gilselling and frustrating of players. After some month you implemented the idea and I think it was a successful decision to make that game even more better.

    However to my suggestion for FF14. I noticed that you lose quite of lots customer, because they are frustrated because the loot system in Coil is fully RNG based. Let me make that clear on an example:

    For example you have a group which clear T10-T13 weekly. Some people might be really lucky and get the loots their want, but there are also quite few which was clearing in the last patch over 15 times and did not get their loot. I noticed lots of people which have bad luck are just frustrated and go to other games or totally stop playing.

    1000 Systems limit, please read below comment for next page.
    (5)

  2. #2
    Player
    Amanduz's Avatar
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    Amanduz Ace
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    Tonberry
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    Thaumaturge Lv 50
    To avoid this I suggest to fix it with an little modification. You should leave the system like it is with the RNG and weekly lockout but add one important thing. If a player cleared for example 5 or 10 times 1 turn (for example: T13) than he should get an item, let’s call it Token. With this item he can go to an NPC and trade the Token against the specific item which he wants (the NPC should all Loot of turns).

    Player A cleared 8 times Final Coil of Bahamut Turn 13 he unfortunately had no luck that his weapon dropped. He is very frustrated and about to stop playing and find another game. But in 2 more kills of that Boss he know he will get the token and that token he can trade against the weapon he want. That way he stays motivated and keep playing.

    I suggest making weapon token after 10 kills and other token, and for other turns after 5 kills. You can also combine the getting of this token with the archiving system.

    1000 Systems limit, please read below comment for next page.
    (5)

  3. #3
    Player
    Amanduz's Avatar
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    Amanduz Ace
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    Tonberry
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    Thaumaturge Lv 50
    That way you keep:

    A) the player highly motivated, because they see if they put high effort in and long time playing they will get automatic the item they want.

    B) You still have the system you implemented with RNG factor added by an little modification to make it perfect.

    C) Even players which already had luck in RNG and have all their items stay motivated to keep playing because they can also gear now other classes. Before there was problems that people who had all their loots just left the group and didn’t raid with them anymore.

    I hope I was able to make my point of view clear and I hope you implement it in the near future to the game so they game will grow up even more and keep the player long time motivated in the game and keep them in the game.

    If you have further questions, please let me know anytime.

    Thanks,

    Amanduz
    (5)

  4. #4
    Player
    ruskie's Avatar
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    Asny Rak'nys
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    Cerberus
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    Bard Lv 70
    You can edit your post to bypass 1000 char limit. As for this have you looked at the new drexpert dungeons and their drops of "token" gear. I'm guessing this is a bit of a test of such a system for future uses.
    (4)

  5. #5
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    This makes loot common. I'm sorry but with the lack of varied gear, nothing is truly rare. People should have to work hard for loot. Making loot easily accessible devalue earning it.
    (3)

  6. #6
    Player
    ruskie's Avatar
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    Asny Rak'nys
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    I don't see how this makes it common. You still get the core of your loot as RNG drops but if you week after week after week get nothing then this balances out that bad RNG by giving you one bit of loot in N weeks.
    (1)

  7. #7
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    It does make items common. You talk a lot about luck, good luck, bad luck, whatever. The fact is, people get loot regardless of "luck". Rewarding players because RNG doesn't agree with them is not the way to balance a game. Who says balance needs to be achieved by handing out rewards for "participation"? Apply this same argument to the old Atma drop rates, it doesn't work. If you are willing to quit a game because you cannot get a piece of loot then I say that action alone balances out the game. Players shouldn't be able to hold the game hostage because they don't get a piece of loot. Some items should be rare; I don't want to play a game where everyone has the same items. Those with a deep well of patience will get these items, those without, well they will stay without.

    EDIT: I understand your frustration and would suggest that instead of a token for a guaranteed item, for every 10 clears without winning an item the player gest a token that either allows a free reroll or a +10 bonus to their current roll.

    And finally, when you say SE is losing it's customer base, that is a claim you MUST back up with fact. Numbers and figures are what a company looks into at the end of each financial quarter. If SE determines that they are losing customers because of the RNG system then I guarantee they will look into that system accordingly.
    (1)
    Last edited by IsaacDamodred; 11-25-2014 at 11:24 PM. Reason: Change of opinion

  8. #8
    Player
    ruskie's Avatar
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    Asny Rak'nys
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    Bard Lv 70
    "Those with a deep well of patience will get these items, those without, well they will stay without."

    Sorry but RNG is not good game design or balance and certanly not rewarding patience. It's a way to keep people getting just that one more hit at trying it(aka player/sub retention).
    And yes I agreed from the start that atma drop rates should have been adjusted OR that there should have been some progression towards getting in to even out the RNG.

    The RNG drops are akin to dig a random hole somewhere and hope you struck something valuable. Also this is not a drop the token instantly. This is drop a token for those people that have in so and so many runs not gotten a SINGLE drop(yes that happens)(this would replace ONE of the drops in the fight by a token after so and so tries of not getting it). Would it change the balance in any way? No not really. Infact I would argue the token dropped should be specific to those people that can need it so in the end if there are 3 people that have yet to see a drop then those 3 can roll on it. It changes nothing balance wise. Just gives a person a bone to keep going(aka player/sub retention).

    And such people are the ones that will leave because not getting a reward for something you are farming is not enjoyable. Especially if you see everyone else around you getting their drops(you wouldn't believe how demoralizing it gets when all your friends already got their atmas 1 month before you manage to get more than 5 for the same or even MORE effort).

    "I don't want to play a game where everyone has the same items."

    Face it you already are. The builds are mostly cookie cutter with maybe 2 paths depending if you prioritize one secondary over another. The rest is just sugar coating on top.
    (2)

  9. #9
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    "You should leave the system like it is with the RNG" If the RNG system is "not good game design" you can't correct it by just adding situational modifiers. Your suggestion is to take a system that is "not good game design" and mutate it to fit your needs. If a player is willing to quit a game because RNG is unfair then I say let them. You say RNG is "akin to dig(ing) a random hole", but that argument is flawed because someone always "digs in the right spot." Like I said, I get your frustration but handing out freebies isn't the way to do it. If you believe the RNG system is flawed then you need to suggest a new system instead of trying to patch the current one.

    "And such people are the ones that will leave because not getting a reward for something you are farming is not enjoyable."

    Then don't farm it. If you don't find something enjoyable you are not obligated to do it. I can't do Titan Extreme because my Playstation 3's hardware can't keep up with incoming information. That frustrates me but I understand that this is something that is not currently correctable. Just because the game doesn't work the way one player wants it to does not mean the system needs to be changed to cater to them. If they quit, then fine, but them quitting is not reason enough to change key elements and plenty of players ARE getting items.

    "I don't want to play a game where everyone has the same items."

    I quote myself because you did not understand why I said that. I realize that the builds are "mostly cookie cutter". But at the same time, there is gear that is still seen as "top level" and currently out of reach. I don't want to see players running around with "pity" rewards. If you can't obtain the item through normal mean you should not be handed items because you fail to roll well in RNG. Personally, the problem I see is in instances in general. It devalues gear because and instance can be entered whenever enough players join in a party. Hence why gear binds to you and is unable to be sold on the MB. When I hear players complain about not rolling a good value in RNG it makes me happy. I don't want things to be handed out easily, at all. If I do get gear from the final raids I will consider myself lucky and happy to have something that at that moment, may be considered rare but obtainable gear.

    And everyone can get gear, just enter with a preformed group of friends you may have made along the way. If they can't agree to share the loot then maybe you shouldn't count them as friends. And if you don't have friends in the game, make some. This is a social game, a growing game. I guarantee better gear will come along and the gear once though barely attainable will come your way. Don't change the RNG system, get rid of it.
    (3)

  10. #10
    Player
    Amanduz's Avatar
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    Amanduz Ace
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    Tonberry
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    Thaumaturge Lv 50
    Thanks for your comments I stay to my opinion and suggestion and believe a modification like that will result in an overall performance increase of the game and higher customer statisfication.

    However thanks IsaacDamodred for your value comments but as you mentioned yourself you did not clear Titan Extreme yet (which is really old content) which makes you not the right person to judge on current progression content without any experience. I am only talking on the weekly lockout contents which is currently T10,T11,T12 and T13.

    The old content without weekly lockouts I dont talk about.
    (2)

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