SE enough of the treadmill, please make the game more interesting!

[Duelle]

Sooo.... Spending all that time on gear just for it to get entirely replaced is better?

Better than having an unhealthy attachment to gear while wanting to snuff the concept of progression as much as possible to keep said gear relevant.

[Sho86]

Better than having an unhealthy attachment to gear while wanting to snuff the content of progression as much as possible to keep said gear relevant.

Unhealthy attachment? And wanting to do the same grind over and over again for the same job with slightly bigger numbers is healthy? Right... Also, content progression is NOT "snuffed" in any way. Just because your hitting for bigger numbers does not mean the same scenario could not be done with a couple digits less. Name any current dungeon, raid, coil, whatever that we are doing now - and it could be done with Lv10 gear, if they chose it to be done at that level. The difficulty would still be the same as the scenario would be scaled to it. Titan EX could have been Titan SM and so forth.

[Duelle]

Unhealthy attachment? And wanting to do the same grind over and over again for the same job with slightly bigger numbers is healthy?

That's how progression works. Out with the old, in with the new. When you resist you're showing you a) don't understand the concept of progression and b) are unwilling to move forward because of unhealthy attachments/nostalgia. Which is no different from the nonsense I saw on the FFXI boards when the developers wanted to move content in a certain direction and the people with relics/mythics/empyreans started crying that their time spent and the gear that came from it wasn't cream-of-the-crop uber elite. Which by extension is also no different from the WoW players in Naxx gear who complained that their gear wasn't going to matter once The Burning Crusade hit.

Also, content progression is NOT "snuffed" in any way.

I said this because when your main intent is making old stuff relevant in the same scale as new stuff, you're either making concessions in gear design, content design or character growth. I'm not about to sacrifice any of those just because someone is upset their breastplate from final coil will become obsolete.

For the record, I've done more gear grinds than I can count. The only thing that ever bothered me about disposing of old gear was that I liked the design of some, especially as looks varied depending on the tier/gear level. Lo' and behold, systems like wardrobe, transmogrification and glamours come into existence and pretty much do away with the only problem I ever had with sharding/tossing/selling outdated gear. Gear is tangible, yes, but like everything else there will come a time when it has to be replaced. That's why I'll cling more to my memories raiding or the odd weapon/gear that makes sense for my character's concept (my gnome's favorite weapon in WoW was an axe I got while questing in deepholm, nothing from any raid) over the current top gear.

[Sho86]

That's how progression works. Out with the old, in with the new.

Lv50 X boss is down, great you beat it, its old. Lv50 Y boss comes in, its new, time to learn new stuff and see new sights.

When you resist you're showing you a) don't understand the concept of progression and b) are unwilling to move forward because of unhealthy attachments/nostalgia.

Here we go with that "unhealthy" word again. No one is 'resisting' new fights and story coming out. Having new gear doesn't mean it has to do more numbers, it can have its own unique ability or stat combos. Those who want to sit with their current gear(at the current character level) could do so, those who want the new look/new stats/ability can go grind for it, both sides win, both sides are given the chance to progress on content.

WoW players in Naxx gear who complained that their gear wasn't going to matter once The Burning Crusade hit.

The bar was raised entirely. There was room for character/player growth on a whole as your level grew. Your character was no longer at the top on its own, so likewise its gear would only be so strong (that of the characters level).

I said this because when your main intent is making old stuff relevant in the same scale as new stuff, you're either making concessions in gear design, content design or character growth. I'm not about to sacrifice any of those just because someone is upset their breastplate from final coil will become obsolete.

Nothing is being sacrificed when someone at Lv50 can do a Lv50 fight/story/raid. If the content itself is that bland to where its the same as what you just fought last patch cept bigger numbers, then that is the problem, not because we hit for the same numbers.

Gear is tangible, yes, but like everything else there will come a time when it has to be replaced. That's why I'll cling more to my memories raiding or the odd weapon/gear that makes sense for my character's concept (my gnome's favorite weapon in WoW was an axe I got while questing in deepholm, nothing from any raid) over the current top gear.

And I held onto my Lv 42 AF Honor Sword for PLD in XI. At its level it was worthwhile to use, but no longer any use to me at 50, 60, 75, whatever. The nostalgia is there because it was useful for its time and was meaningful to achieve, much like AF armor at 60s, and Relic armor at 75. They held their purpose at their level because the character held their level.

[Nalien]

Better than having an unhealthy attachment to gear while wanting to snuff the concept of progression as much as possible to keep said gear relevant.

It isn't even about that. Most of the gear they add is simply worthless from the start; see any dungeon drop after Darklight and before AF1.5. That gear was never relevant. Making it relevant actually adds a whole new activity to the game. Keeping gear relevant actually gives players more to do than capping tomestones on a weekly basis. Gods forbid this game has more content to do.

Also, you're pretty silly if you think progression is solely about throwing out the old. There are plenty of examples of progression where we've kept the old, or simply improved upon it. Why? Because humans like having options (see: Transportation), that is why people want such gear to remain relevant, because it gives them options. The only real sense of progression this game has is the Relic quest, everything else is more akin to a trend. We had the Darklight trend, the Mythology trend, etc. etc.. Progression in Coil would have been nice, always thought it'd have been better to keep First/Second Coil more relevant by having the gear from First upgrade to Second, and finally now to Final, rather than each new Coil dropping entirely new pieces that replace the old.

[Tiggy]

see any dungeon drop after Darklight and before AF1.5. That gear was never relevant..

A great way to level desyth from the 60's and up, GC points that continue to remain relevant, and brand new players who don't yet have any currency stored or haven't had a chance to complete the 110 set yet since that takes time farming.

Come on man. It's very relevant. More relevant today than it ever was. The premise of your argument is false.

[Nalien]

Come on man. It's very relevant. More relevant today than it ever was. The premise of your argument is false.

That gear is solely relevant for Glamour, that's the only reason someone would actively farm the gear. Desynthesis is a joke to level and I seriously doubt anyone leveled it by farming such gear when there are far easier methods available, same for Company Seals. Haven't gotten i110 yet? Do Scyrus Tower and get i100 and upgrade items for i110, no idea why you'd opt to spam The Lost City instead.

Outside Glamour its relevance is utterly fleeting and certainly not something you'd go out of your way to obtain. It's a nice bonus if you're still gearing up or for desynth/Seals, but compared to the main pieces of gear in this game, its relevance is microscopic.

[Tiggy]

That gear is solely relevant for Glamour, that's the only reason someone would actively farm the gear.

False. I know a few people this week that farmed them for points and for desynth. You're making assumptions about how people play.

Desynthesis is a joke to level and I seriously doubt anyone leveled it by farming such gear when there are far easier methods available, same for Company Seals.

Also false, some of the desynth categories don't have extremely easy options in the 60/70s. Many of the desynth categories are very tough after this point. Getting gear from dungeons is a perfectly viable form of supplementing desynth leveling.
As for company seals 1 drop from the expert roulette gives over 1k seals for 1 item. This is very effective for farming seals. Is it as fast as fate farming? Probably not, but it doesn't have to be the best to be viable and useful for people. Many people don't touch fates and only get GC from item turn ins.

Haven't gotten i110 yet? Do Scyrus Tower and get i100 and upgrade items for i110, no idea why you'd opt to spam The Lost City instead.

You need a certain ilevel to even enter those dungeons. Newer players won't yet have that yet. So that gear from the first few 50 dungeons will help them get to those higher level dungeons. Making that gear useful for standard leveling and gearing purposes however fleeting that may be.

You're ignoring valid uses for this gear simply because you want to ignore it to fit your narrative. Not because they are genuinely invalid.

[Nalien]

You need a certain ilevel to even enter those dungeons. Newer players won't yet have that yet. So that gear from the first few 50 dungeons will help them get to those higher level dungeons. Making that gear useful for standard leveling and gearing purposes however fleeting that may be.

First few level 50 dungeons fall in the range of "after Darklight and before AF1.5"? Those were my exact words, and I mean them, I am talking specifically about gear like Shikaree's Doublet and Shirt Of The Divine Light. Crap from Amdapor Keep and Wanderers Palace are perfectly valid for a newb 50. Gear drops from Lost City are not. At that point you have vastly better options available to you, and even if you didn't, that gears drop rate is so pathetic that you'll be buying gear with tomestones before you see any of it actually drop.

As for company seals 1 drop from the expert roulette gives over 1k seals for 1 item. This is very effective for farming seals. Is it as fast as fate farming? Probably not, but it doesn't have to be the best to be viable and useful for people. Many people don't touch fates and only get GC from item turn ins.

FATE farming? Who'd bother with that. Go buy a stack of Hippo Leather and Sinew and just earn 1k seals/minute.

As for desynth. Darklight and Heroes/AF1.5 are great. Everything in between is fairly irrelevant. Again, my exact words were "after Darklight and before AF1.5".

[Tiggy]

Again, my exact words were "after Darklight and before AF1.5".

No your exact words were..

That gear is solely relevant for Glamour, that's the only reason someone would actively farm the gear.

To which you now want to nit pick the details of my examples. The fact remains I presented reasonable uses for the gear in the face of your glamor only argument.

In addition having multiple ways of obtaining something (gc seals) doesn't invalidate other methods. Some people don't want to do the hippo leather. Some people use that method AND sell gear from dungeons and do both. The point remains that it's a valid way to get GC. Other methods in no way change the validity of this one or it's effectiveness.