SE enough of the treadmill, please make the game more interesting!

[Ryel]

Most people need to take a break from a MMO every now and again. Modern gamers who rush through content, don't read text, and just focus on progression progression progression end up playing too much due to lack of self-control. Then they wind up hating the game and seeing more faults than the game truly has. So do yourself a favor, take a break, and come back when you're ready. The game will still be here for you.

The current gear treadmill system the game is using actually promotes this.

With weekly caps on Tomes, and lockouts on the highest form of coil and CT/ST on release the game basically forces you to play constantly if you wish to stay current, otherwise you quickly fall behind until the next "catch up" patch is released. A player that misses 30 days from a patch release misses out on 4 weeks of tomes that they will essentially be unable to EVER recover. Add to this the fact that on the high end this system realistically only allows you to gear one job at a time (unless you have alternate characters) and to do so you're really only doing the highest form of coil for... 6 months at a time (no alternate raids, and Ex primals are usually behind in ilvl) it's very much designed in a ladder format that encourages burnout.

Honestly it'll probably only be another month before most hardcore and higher midcore groups are done with and farming FCoB in which case that is the only thing those players will be doing until 3.0 in.. march?

It would be nice to have instead of just one set of endgame "raids" at a time to have them release 2-3 types simultaneously with around equal ilvl gear and separate lockouts (if any at all, dear god we need a token system), the hardest core would likely try to burn through all of them simultaneously (which is fine, it's expected of the hardcore crowd) but it would break up activity and give options for the large number players who currently burn out on the 1 raid for the 1 set of gear over the 6 month period we have now.

[WinterSolstice]

Or are they seeing all the faults more clearly because they play more?

Of course they are. That's a basic fact of life. If you focus too much on anything (a game, something you made by hand, etc), you start to see the faults and focus more on them then you would normally. That's why moderation is always good. That's why taking breaks can be good. The point is, faults become rather consuming the more you focus on them, and most people begin to see the subject in question more for its faults rather than as it is as a whole. That's the reason I said that most people need to take a break from MMOs. This holds true for any MMO.

The current gear treadmill system the game is using actually promotes this.

With weekly caps on Tomes, and lockouts on the highest form of coil and CT/ST on release the game basically forces you to play constantly if you wish to stay current, otherwise you quickly fall behind until the next "catch up" patch is released. A player that misses 30 days from a patch release misses out on 4 weeks of tomes that they will essentially be unable to EVER recover. Add to this the fact that on the high end this system realistically only allows you to gear one job at a time (unless you have alternate characters) and to do so you're really only doing the highest form of coil for... 6 months at a time (no alternate raids, and Ex primals are usually behind in ilvl) it's very much designed in a ladder format that encourages burnout.

Honestly it'll probably only be another month before most hardcore and higher midcore groups are done with and farming FCoB in which case that is the only thing those players will be doing until 3.0 in.. march?

It would be nice to have instead of just one set of endgame "raids" at a time to have them release 2-3 types simultaneously with around equal ilvl gear and separate lockouts (if any at all, dear god we need token system), the hardest core would likely try to burn through all of them simultaneously (which is fine, it's expected of the hardcore crowd) but it would break up activity and give options for the large number players who currently burn out on the 1 raid for the 1 set of gear over the 6 month period we have now.

Oh I certainly agree there could be changes. I truly wish that YoshiP designed this game with horizontal progression in mind. It'd be fantastic if they made an entire set of different end-game raids akin to coil or such.
They probably don't, and won't, for the same reason YoshiP gave for not putting in 10+ bosses in raids. Because the community refused to wait long enough for them to do so, but he'd like to if they had more time.

[DragonSlayer45]

I would like it if gear gave unique properties to make them slightly more interesting, but Square Enix has already shot down that idea. As said above, pretty much every patch adds +5 to +10 to each stat and calls it a day. If you aren't doing Coil, you are behind everyone else in terms of gear progression with the next Crystal Tower allowing you to catch up.

It makes every patch feel like the last one except in a different looking package. I still enjoy this game, but I would love Heavensward to break this chain.

[Rocco]

This what happens when your mmo is a theme park and relies on gear grinds and gear scores.

[Luvbunny]

I don't get it. You said you have more stuffs to do in FFXI? That game is 10 times worse when it comes to grinds. And what do you exactly do in FFXI?? Ding ding ding!!!! Collecting gears... and more gears... and more gears!! And farming and grinding, for xp, for money, for currency, for oh forget it, it's grinding for every single little things you want to do.

[Ryel]

I don't get it. You said you have more stuffs to do in FFXI? That game is 10 times worse when it comes to grinds. And what do you exactly do in FFXI?? Ding ding ding!!!! Collecting gears... and more gears... and more gears!! And farming and grinding, for xp, for money, for currency, for oh forget it, it's grinding for every single little things you want to do.

This is incorrect actually, what FFXI offered (which was far from perfect mind you) was variety in content.

Because gear progression was horizontal and equipment could be swapped in for various abilities etc during battle, content was relevant for much longer than it is here. You could arguably be doing Dynamis, CoP Dynamis, Limbus, Salvage, Einherjar, Nyzul Isle, Sky, Sea, HNMs, ZNMs, Campaign, and various small NMs for years because something there would still be usable (this was at 75 cap btw), and yes much of this content was added over YEARS of expansions (While ARR is only a little over a year old, FFXIV is going on 4+ years now)

I don't think anyone wants the horrible and lulz-worthy system that was mid battle gear swapping back, nor do i think you'll find anyone who will argue that gear from 4 years prior should be best in slot for anything (it shouldn't), what people do want however, is more variety in content maybe a branching path of gear options as opposed to a ladder that goes one way.

And yes before someone brings this point up, number-crunchers will always find the numerical BiS for any job given situation and opportunity, this however shouldn't stop the devs from adding a variety of content.

[Tsukino]

This is incorrect actually, what FFXI offered (which was far from perfect mind you) was variety in content.

Because gear progression was horizontal and equipment could be swapped in for various abilities etc during battle, content was relevant for much longer than it is here. You could arguably be doing Dynamis, CoP Dynamis, Limbus, Salvage, Einherjar, Nyzul Isle, Sky, Sea, HNMs, ZNMs, Campaign, and various small NMs for years because something there would still be usable (this was at 75 cap btw), and yes much of this content was added over YEARS of expansions (While ARR is only a little over a year old, FFXIV is going on 4+ years now)

I don't think anyone wants the horrible and lulz-worthy system that was mid battle gear swapping back, nor do i think you'll find anyone who will argue that gear from 4 years prior should be best in slot for anything (it shouldn't), what people do want however, is more variety in content maybe a branching path of gear options as opposed to a ladder that goes one way.

And yes before someone brings this point up, number-crunchers will always find the numerical BiS for any job given situation and opportunity, this however shouldn't stop the devs from adding a variety of content.

This is all pretty accurate. Note that making lots of content remain relevant not only provides gear variety, but actually provides for content variety, because nothing gets "replaced." All those events listed are mechanically very different from each other and have varying party size requirements, while XIV just has three: 8-man endgame, 24-man catchup raids, and 4-man facerolls for grinding.

Also, XIV's system kind of screws over players in the "middle" of time commitment and progression. People at the top are always ready for the next thing, while the most casual players benefit from the easing of previous content, but there's this place in the middle where you finally complete a set just in time for it to be replaced with another and for what you just got to be made much easier to do. And a lot of people fall into that middle category.

[Ryel]

XIV's system kind of screws over players in the "middle" of time commitment and progression. People at the top are always ready for the next thing, while the most casual players benefit from the easing of previous content, but there's this place in the middle where you finally complete a set just in time for it to be replaced with another and for what you just got to be made much easier to do. And a lot of people fall into that middle category.

I agree with this completely and i think it's XIV's largest issue outside of the ladder of gear progression.

Right now this game doesn't really consider the "middle" ground or rather most midcore players, the players that have the ability to down the current raids but for a number of reasons are unable to do so on first release.

Due to the initial lockout, many of these players may simply be unable to put together / maintain a static party for the long periods of time it usually takes to not only learn the encounters but also to deal with the RNG of drops when it comes time to farm them. If the system was more flexible and allowed for either variable party sizes or an ease up on the amount of time for the initial lockout (they're supposedly doing this in 2.45) more players would be able to experience this content first hand.

These are often the players you may hear complaining about adding Echo / nerfing content so soon because they enjoyed / just learned the normal difficulty once it was unlocked and added to duty finder, but are now robbed of the experience because content in this game jumps straight from hardcore lockouts to free for all casual duty finder without anything in between.

This is something else easily fixable by adding a variety of gear paths, you have the option of making Hardcore, Midcore, and Casual type raids that can be released in sooner increments than 6 months, allowing everyone to progress in some fashion and leaving none really behind.

[coldreactive]

We could have a branching storyline with different dungeons for that story path. (These would be unlockable as "Optional" Dungeons to players who picked another path.) Let's say Rev Toll becomes a city state... Minfillia and the others offer you a permanent stay with them and dealing with certain other primals, or you could continue with other stories concerning the Garlemald Empire, etc. It would be an innovative step in an MMORPG... that's for sure.

[Rhas]

This is incorrect actually, what FFXI offered (which was far from perfect mind you) was variety in content.

Because gear progression was horizontal and equipment could be swapped in for various abilities etc during battle, content was relevant for much longer than it is here. You could arguably be doing Dynamis, CoP Dynamis, Limbus, Salvage, Einherjar, Nyzul Isle, Sky, Sea, HNMs, ZNMs, Campaign, and various small NMs for years because something there would still be usable (this was at 75 cap btw), and yes much of this content was added over YEARS of expansions (While ARR is only a little over a year old, FFXIV is going on 4+ years now)

Sorry, but.. 1.0 XIV doesn't even remotely count. they had to rebuild everything. The current game has been out for 1 year. There have been no expansions yet. Pretty much every system has been redone and recoded from UI to GCD to skills, AI, graphics in general (landscape to character models), seemless world to instances, fates, DF, etc, etc and etc.

All XI had from US launch was grind and more party grind. I should know I played it for about 7 years from US release. Each expansion broken with promises of getting better with all anyone could do was simply grind away the hours. Which, I actually had no issues with I happily ground away hours days weeks and years. In fact the reason I quit was for people problems, not the game itself. Though, them closing my server and moving me to one that was not the same as my wife was in fact the death knell for me.

None of what you mentioned you could do in XI was there at US launch. None of it.. ell except for some NM's. You forgot the events, though. The events were really the only break with the grinding and even they could be a grind lol

At the same point now that ARR is as to 1 year from XI US release, XIV is hands down the better game with more to do. at year 1 XI we still hadn't even reached end game yet. Mostly because at that point there still wasn't an end game because for the most part US players had not reached it yet. They were still leveling up their characters due to the slower party grind system not unlike the old EQ days.