Tanking habits

[Mercuito]

To OP, I guess I was affected in one of your DF run last night on Qarn HM.
I try to always be attentive to others during runs, so the first pack is always a test more or less.

Lie's you didn't ask for a tp regen and you didn't check gear or anything you just ran through the mobs like a raging bull. I said cool mate cos I have spoken to tanks about this and they just ignore me. couple of points for you people.

1. all this nonsense about checking gear and composition doesn't happen in most games tanks just run in
2. If you do tell the tank they should chill out they usually just get annoyed and reply "I know how to tank" or just ignore you.
3. you were the one that pulls trash into the mini boss room. I was so annoyed but I said nothing cos you don't care what stress you put on the dps

[Kiara1]

Pulling everything up to first boss in wanderers palace is fun cause its actually a challenge! But I'd never do that if I werent in a group of only FC members unless the others wanted me to!

Edit: Also this

I've definitely had more complaints about small pulls than I have about large.

My tank character recently got to level 50, and in ilvl 51 or so I tried pharos sirius, and the healer complained that I didn't pull enough creeps even though I was struggling to keep hate for 2 groups at once.

I feel bad for new tanks that just hit 50, I already knew all the mechanics, and my characters attitude helps me if someones mean (She just tells them theyre silly and keeps doing what she did)

I had one healer bail on me in brayflox hm cause my ilvl was too low apparantly.
We got another one and finished it.

[Dement]

Personally, I wish they'd remove some of the mechanics that force you to keep your pull size small. When I enter a dungeon, I check everyone to see what I'm working with and also ask the group if they want big or small pulls. I even adjust my accessories between DPS and Fending accordingly to deal with the size decided. If you have 2 melees, sure keep it small and consistent stream but if you have 2 BLMs and a competent healer, why not go as fast as possible? After running a dungeon for the 200th time, I just want to get in, get everyone their poetics as fast as reasonably possible and get out again to do other things.

It may be boring to you to spam the same AoE skill over and over again but it's equally boring to me to only have to keep hate on 3 mobs. It takes very little skill, even without marking targets, once you're used to it. I'd much rather have the option be there for when I do get an ideal speed run group than to be forced to keep pull sizes to 3-6 mobs all the time.

Furthermore, even melee DPS have decent AoE skills at their disposal. Everyone talks about how limited MNK is when it comes to AoE so we'll take that as an example. If you wait until the mobs are grouped and then use Blood for blood > Internal Release > Perfect Balance > Rock Breaker x5 > Howling Fist > and then go into your normal combo ending it in Rock Breaker everytime, you can easily put out about 2.5k damage to all mobs in the span of 5 MNK GCDs, with the added benefit of keeping GL3 up while picking off the survivors. I would assume that DRG and NIN have similar options when utilized correctly. Will you match 2 Flare happy BLMs? No, probably not. Will you do enough damage to take the group down before a competent tank/healer run out of resources. Most likely.

[Mercuito]

Personally, I wish they'd remove some of the mechanics that force you to keep your pull size small. When I enter a dungeon, I check everyone to see what I'm working with and also ask the group if they want big or small pulls. I even adjust my accessories between DPS and Fending accordingly to deal with the size decided. If you have 2 melees, sure keep it small and consistent stream but if you have 2 BLMs and a competent healer, why not go as fast as possible? After running a dungeon for the 200th time, I just want to get in, get everyone their poetics as fast as reasonably possible and get out again to do other things.

I'm sorry mate tanks don't do this. All you tanks are coming up here explaining the same thing. That you check with the group. Lies. no one checks with the group. I bet they don't even know the group composition until they wipe. in reality they just run into the mobs and hope for the best

[sarehptar]

My attitude on this issue changes depending on what class I'm playing. If I'm healing, I always state in advance things like "I haven't done this one before, please don't pull too big" or "Honestly I am super lazy/tired tonight, don't make me work too hard." But if I've been through the dungeons before and I'm just there for tomes or whatever, I will let the tank know how big of pulls I can handle and let them go for it if they want to.

If I play DPS, I just sit down, shut up, and let the tank and healer hash out pulls. I'm just there to kill stuff; the number of things I have to kill won't change no matter the size of the pull. XD

Had a tank last night in Sastasha HM doing some big pulls, including pulling the whole last room at once. I was Bard, other DPS was Dragoon, healer was Scholar so no holy, but nevertheless, we cleared them out at a decent pace without any issue. I think that deciding how to do pulls shouldn't automatically be based on party composition--two great melee players can down big packs of mobs faster than two crappy Black Mages who don't know their rotations, etc. I like the idea of a "tester" pull at the beginning to gauge your group's ability and then go with the flow from there.

I think the bottom line for me is that people need to agree. If someone doesn't want to speed run, I always side with that person even if I personally hate the dungeon and want out of there as soon as possible, because forcing someone to play content in a way that wasn't really intended by the creators and in a way that the person might not be comfortable with seems really unpleasant to me. That's all.

[Izsha]

It's 'boring' to spam aoes? I find it boring to spend 20 min in a dungeon like WP I've been doing for a year when I could be done in 10.

There's nothing inherently wrong with speed runs unless the group can't handle the stuff the tank grabs. Some are better judges of this than others so just communicate with your party. I've played other classes enough to know their aoe capabilities by glancing at their gear and tanked enough to know how to balance my CDs and work with my healer. Not to mention seeing how a 1st medium pull goes to verify for the rest of the dungeon. Not everyone has that experience or knowledge though. Just communicate if you are uncomfortable.

[Mercuito]

It's 'boring' to spam aoes? I find it boring to spend 20 min in a dungeon like WP I've been doing for a year when I could be done in 10.

There's nothing inherently wrong with speed runs unless the group can't handle the stuff the tank grabs. Some are better judges of this than others so just communicate with your party. I've played other classes enough to know their aoe capabilities by glancing at their gear and tanked enough to know how to balance my CDs and work with my healer. Not to mention seeing how a 1st medium pull goes to verify for the rest of the dungeon. Not everyone has that experience or knowledge though. Just communicate if you are uncomfortable.

So your solution is to pull half the dungeon cos your bored? Really?

[Izsha]

So your solution is to pull half the dungeon cos your bored? Really?

Your missing the point. I've been doin WP since LAST november. The entire dungeon is boring so get it over with. Similarly you say single target rotations are not Boeing but aoe spam is boring. To me single target rotations are boring because I've been doing that for a year too. My drg, mnk, and war rotations are identical as they were since 2.1. It's just wrote muscle memory. Nothing interesting about seeing butchers block one 1 dude or overpower on 10. So just get the dungeon over with to get my tomes and move on in 10 min instead of 20.

I'm glad basic dungeon runs are so mind blowing and interesting for you. They aren't for me.

[Gimorian401]

The big pull tanking habit definitely comes from having that 1 or 2 heavy AoE party but also from the more experienced players pushing the tank to do the bigger pulls, when everyone wants it you tend to listen.

The worst habit I see in tanks is the "I'll pull that group of 3 or 4 mobs. I wont mark I wont use AoE hate gain and attack one mob at a time." Just as bad is the I only use AoE abilities to tank. You say tanking is boring and all you do is big pull AoE, well no kidding its boring.

All aspects tanking, healing and DPS should learn to look at the party, their experience and every after a pull or two skill level and just learn what works and enjoy the ride.

Almost forgot. Just because tanking waits are nil does not mean that when you see a dungeon you dont want you should just ditch.

[Drako]

Stopped at WP comment. OP I hope you didn't kill everything on that initial first large pull, because you can skip most of it... and get to boss in like 2 minutes time, shaving off lots of time on the run. Also you don't think killing one group at a time, and spending an extra 15 minutes in a dungeon isn't more boring? lol PS. I'm one of those tanks that checks party configuration and even ask if everyone is ok. I'm sure some may be pressured, in their own mind, to say ok sure. But others want to just get it over with just like me. If I'm in a low level, unless I'm with a bunch of Atma people, I pull slowly, and kill everything unless otherwise advised.

I can't get my mind off of WP. I mean even back with ilvl70 Darklight we were pulling huge, and wiping the mobs out without much trouble. Now we have ilvl100+ plus people dropping in there, it should take seconds to kill those mobs now..regardless of what DPS class we are talking about. As far as the lower dungeons like WP and AK.