PSA: NIN and WAR relations

[Asierid]

I am a warrior who tanks things. You guys are Ninja who do good DPS. This is about lv 50 content.

So stop attempting to overwrite my slashing debuff and enjoy the fact you don't have to babysit a debuff. You are making yourself bad by doing this. I have to put it up because of Maim. You put it up just because. If you are running with a WAR that can add two numbers together, they are using Storms Eye. So just don't even think about Dancing Edge.

It makes me rage when I do Eye and not a second later, Dancing Edge pops up over it.

/vent

[Exstal]

It would help if you kept it up 100% of the time, instead of 83.3% of the time forcing use to reapply it ourselves.

Thanks,

All Ninjas

[AkashiXI]

Yeah, it's difficult keeping Eye up 100%. If I'm doing dungeons, I'm generally doing Butchers(just at the start)/Eye/Butchers/Butchers. Those 2 butchers will give you about 3~4 seconds of relay until your eye will overlap, which makes it difficult to reapply if you're also using Inner (or the bad luck of being pacified).

I've come to the conclusion that if a Ninja is overlapping my Eye, I'll use path instead. Everyone wins, I guess :<

[Kenji1134]

Yeah, although War does generally have strong ST hate generation, if they must maintain Path and Eye, well...
BB Combo = 150+200*3+280*5 = 2150 base.
SP Combo = 150+190+250 = 590 base.
SE Combo = 150+190+270 = 610 base.
And Buffs/Stance amount to x1.2 (Maim) x.75 (Defiance) x2 (Defiance) = 1.8x buff/stance mod.

So a rotation of SP-BB-BB, the standard tanking rotation, is 4890 in 9 gcds, so ~ 217/sec, x1.8 from buffs/Defiance is 391, and I'd say most wars have about a 1.4ish potency value around this gear level... I think? So thats 547 hate/sec, with SP-BB-BB. Meaning if someone is pushing 550 dps, they will outaggro the Warrior.

Now, SE-SP-BB, maintaining both, cause you ALWAYS want SP up when tanking, is 3350*1.1 in 9 gcds, or 413/sec x1.8 x1.4 potency value is... 376 hate/sec... That is a pretty big drop, thats 68% of the hate output of the SP-BB-BB rotation.

Then again, this is just "math".
Why not just have a 110 Ninja and a 110 Warrior have an aggro fight on a dummy? Both with, and without cooldowns. I imagine that with cooldowns, the Warrior will hold aggro for a while with SE-SP-BB, but eventually lose.
Though without CD's, and with the Warrior using SE-SP-BB, I am pretty sure the Ninja (or a Monk) will pull off within 30 seconds.

[Arkenne]

Well, for starters, its pretty easy to forget since it becomes a force of habit, you know, battling all the time faring by outselves, having a basic rotation that and all, it often also happens that we overwrite our own «Dancing Edge» when there are 2 or more Ninjas (FATE runs anyone)

It often comes to me 2 or 3 rotations later that "oh, there is a warrior in this party, teehee :v" before stop doing «Dancing Edge» and feel like I have way too much free time :|

It is helpful and appreciated! However, I still have yet to get my War to lvl 50, and Storm's Eye is the very last skill, isnt it? Can you be so kind as of posting the skill debuff icon? I dont know it.

[SpookyGhost]

Yeah, it's difficult keeping Eye up 100%. If I'm doing dungeons, I'm generally doing Butchers(just at the start)/Eye/Butchers/Butchers. Those 2 butchers will give you about 3~4 seconds of relay until your eye will overlap, which makes it difficult to reapply if you're also using Inner (or the bad luck of being pacified).

Why not just have a 110 Ninja and a 110 Warrior have an aggro fight on a dummy? Both with, and without cooldowns. I imagine that with cooldowns, the Warrior will hold aggro for a while with SE-SP-BB, but eventually lose.

Tomahawk->Brutal Swing->Heavy Swing->Unchained->Maim->Berserk->Storm's Eye->Internal Release->Heavy Swing->Skull Sunder->Butcher's Block->Heavy Swing->Inner Beast->Maim->Storm's Eye->Pacificed.

If you have enough SS, you can also throw in a Fracture after the Butcher's Block. From this point on you can rotate SP and SE while never losing hate to anyone outside of a PLD in Shield Oath. SP->BB->BB also isn't the standard tanking rotation, you don't BB unless you need more aggro. It's either SE->BB or SE->SP. Never SP->BB. You also don't always want SP up when tanking, if you outgear the content you can forego it all together and SE->BB forever. My i112 (or w/e he is) NIN friend isn't on, but I can test later and let you know if he can ever pull off me with this but as far as my experience goes, I've done this with an i90 axe vs i115 weapon DPS and have never lost hate.

IMO, WAR should always have SE up and NIN should never have to apply DE.

[Leonus]

I am a warrior who tanks things. You guys are Ninja who do good DPS. This is about lv 50 content.

So stop attempting to overwrite my slashing debuff and enjoy the fact you don't have to babysit a debuff. You are making yourself bad by doing this. I have to put it up because of Maim. You put it up just because. If you are running with a WAR that can add two numbers together, they are using Storms Eye. So just don't even think about Dancing Edge.

It makes me rage when I do Eye and not a second later, Dancing Edge pops up over it.

/vent

If you aren't gonna keep it up 100% of the time(or close), I'm gonna do it.

I'm making myself bad if ssomeone isn't going to apply it, so it's either me or you, pick one. If you don't keep it up, I will.

Don't you dare complain about it either.

/end vent.

[ExiaQuanta]

Really its the mentality of "Do I trust PUGs that they know what they are doing?" and for me personally, 60% of the time LOL. But than again, If you are able to notice that the WAR is putting up the debuff than you can opt out to stop o3o.

[Asierid]

It really isn't hard to keep Eye up 100% of the time, on bosses that is (Trash dies too fast these days to even bother). Attempting to maintain both Eye and Path just doesn't work. Just rotate Eye and BB every rotation and never have a problem with hate, especially after the Unchained rotation in the beginning. As I said earlier, any WAR that can't do this shouldn't be tanking, it really isn't hard.

[Sleigh]

Yeah, it's difficult keeping Eye up 100%. If I'm doing dungeons, I'm generally doing Butchers(just at the start)/Eye/Butchers/Butchers. Those 2 butchers will give you about 3~4 seconds of relay until your eye will overlap, which makes it difficult to reapply if you're also using Inner (or the bad luck of being pacified).

I've come to the conclusion that if a Ninja is overlapping my Eye, I'll use path instead. Everyone wins, I guess :<

I'm confused why you choose SE > BB X 2. Yes, it's more aggro, but SE > BB > SE > BB is more than sufficient, especially with a proper opener.