[dev1032] Class uniqueness and Armory System

[Linnear]

This system woudl be similar to XIs sub job system where you could not ever equip cure IV on a melee class due to no other job getting it prior to 37. These types of things would add to the balance of the game, also stygianspikes on glad is just dumb, I can't think of a better way to say it.....

[kukurumei]

What if it was changed to something like Tactics?

In Tactics, you could learn skills from any Job you leveled up. HOWEVER, only certain skills could be equipped on your current class (with the exception of Squire maybe?). For example... Cure could be equipped on any Class, but Cure II+ could only be equipped on "Mage" classes or perhaps Gladiator to make a "Paladin-esque" character.

What do you guys think about that?

Yes it has been done, and decently balanced, though not totally. What you are suggesting is general skill set and exclusive skill set.

And some of that exists in FF14. Like "requirement : sword"

A more simpler way to do it would be to require -perquisites like cure 3 requires cure 1 and cure 2.

There are many ways to limit the equipping of skills. It is still a hassle to balance it though. It makes things less OP, then you still have a good couple of hundred skills to audit, and there's bound to be "best skill/combo for every class" problem we got now.

The developer suggestion of moving the physical level into the Class is one way of handling that. Can't go around using magic skills if you can't hit anything with it.

[Jasmine_Aurelia]

God, I'm just afraid with this whole class uniquness thing I won't be able to make the class I want... and it scares me that the devs are remaining quiet.

[OmegaNovaios]

The best resolve is not increasing AP cost but reducing effectiveness of actions individually for each class. This allow all skills to still be equipped allowing class customization and class uniqueness at the same time.

Example:
1. Cure Effectiveness:
100% CON
75% THM
50% DoW

2. Defender Effectiveness:
100% MRD
75% DoW
50% DoM

These are just examples of how actions can be scaled individually so that uniqueness is increased. SE can change these values to whatever they want. Although this idea is implemented much more effectively with the Title System rather than based on class. (Link #1 in my signature.)

[darkstarpoet1]

i much prefer to leave the armory system exactly like it is. if you do not want to level other classes that is fine, but i wish to do so. in fact if such things do come into play it will cause even more people to leave the game than already has. myself and most of my ls and most people i know in game included.

[Shikyo]

We have seen this discusion over and over the hybrid class system for me makes things bland like the op said it makes every dd and mage seem the same in the end.
I hope they address this one sooner than later. I know i will get attacked for this *sigh* but in xi what i loved was that there was a sense or pride for the class you played and the strategy that came with the sub class system was awesome.
A warrior could have a completly different play style simply by changing his sub this system is amazing i thought and it wasnt over powered because making the subclass capped at 1/2 the main class man perfect.
In xiv everyone is everything now, no one ever asked "what class do you play" because it doesnt really matter. Of all the things that they could try to be all ground breaking inovative this is one i wish they had let stay the same, just this one thing! Since the very 1st ff on nes there has been "ff classes" and in everone after that and i have played them all i mean all. old school ff mystic quest dude what? XD ok sorry to rant or whine w/e tf you wanna call it, i am a final fantasy fan i even liked X-2 *hides* please SE, Mr. Yoshida if anyone is listening to a diehard fan, bring back the classes the real FF fans know and love.
For thoes that wanna attack me for this post go right ahead idc i am a gamer plain and simple i love rpg's and my fondest memories in gaming have been with FF so i have come to expect certain things when i see this name on a box.

[Shikyo]

This system woudl be similar to XIs sub job system where you could not ever equip cure IV on a melee class due to no other job getting it prior to 37. These types of things would add to the balance of the game, also stygianspikes on glad is just dumb, I can't think of a better way to say it.....

Exactly what i am talking about, its hard for me to understand why a fan of this series would like this system most ff fans are like dude drg owns or man pld is my type of class i like to protect my friends ect ect i think most of the ppl that are cool with this are like new to final fantasy and are just mmorpg fans in general instead.
This system just doest hold to the standards i think most ff fans like or maybe its just me, now go ahead and attack me, uber gladiator with your awesome dagger

[Zantetsuken]

Final Fantasy Tactics (War of the Lions) had one of the best job systems of any FF game. It was amazing because it had a tremendous amount of flexibility in it, but every job was still unique. A key component to keeping it balanced was the different types of slots that a Job had available for abilities.

Rather than just 3 categories', FFXIV could have many different groups of abilities such as: 'Basic Attacks', 'TP Attacks', 'White Magic', 'Black Magic', 'Arcane Magic', 'Green Magic', 'Time Magic', 'Defense', 'Reactions', 'Boost', 'Songs', 'Recovery' 'Attributes','Traits', 'Special', etc...

Each Class would have access to a limited number of categories, and each ability would carry a type, rank limit, and cost. For instance: a White Mage could have a list like the following: (I'm using arbitrary numbers)
White Magic (18pts)
Time Magic (10pts)
Green Magic (8pts)
Recovery (10pts)
Reaction (4pts)
Attributes (6pts)

I think this would work very well as it would still allow for considerable customization without allowing classes to essentially become clones of each-other. In addition, special gear could grant more points in a certain category, or even access to a new category.

[goonMagi]

I really find it frustrating that after 6 months of this MESS of a game, and coming back after a 4 month break around january, that there are level 50 players flooding this board with thoughts like "the armory system works".

lets get one thing very clear: the game does not work, and the ideas used are not good.

There is a very very clear message that the fan base has sent SE, and it is that they strongly dislike the huge lack of content, and the basic functionality of this game. Please, for the developers sake, stop trying to hold on to the armory system. It sucks! there are a thousand flaws with it that are not even worth mentioning because it's time to MOVE ON.

This game NEEDS to go back to traditional names, and it also NEEDS to give up on the incredibly stupid class/job system it has now. Someone had stated earlier that they dislike the armory because of how grey everything has become. Bravo to that person, because they are right on the god damn money. This game is bland, empty, and GREY.

The time for experimenting with crazy class and job ideas was in DEVELOPMENT. not 6 months after all the FF title fanboys are PISSED at how bare bones their messiah of a game has become. I am an angry fan too, and when I come to read these forums and see people saying "I like the armory system", i cringe.

Please understand that this is not a "troll post", however it is one filled with strong sentiment against what seems to be commonly supported on these forums. I also would like to add, that just because YOU like grinding your eyes out in a boring bland world, where each character is basically the same, it DOES NOT mean that other people do. In fact, as the statistics for this game would probably argue, you are the minority. Sure, maybe its only you guys left playing the game right now, but all of the huge fans of FF series are not in agreement with you. Why is the FFXIV? there are no chocobos, and absolutely nothing that says "final fantasy". Is there? because I didn't see it, and I freaking pre-ordered the game.

I WANT TO SEE TRADITIONAL NAMES, and if that means we go back to strict classes and even lost the ability to have one character do it all, I would not care. Make this game fun, make it freaking work!!! because right now it ISN'T just a lack of content that is hurting this game and everything surrounding it. It's the ideas, and the fundamental lack of action to go and change how we view XIV. It needs to change, drastically. If it doesn't, no one will want to come around to check it out again and this game will suffer heavily for that. I really hope this sinks in with you multiple level 50 players...

[Karvapeikko]

In my opinion, differientating Weaponskills from other skills would be a good step making the classes more unique. Weaponskills need to be tied to a weapon as it doesn't make any sense, when any class can use skills like barrage. This way classes would differ from each other with their own unique weaponskills. Also this would make possible for devs to replace the lackluster animations as they wouldn't need to be ported on other weapons. For spells, I think answer isn't just making them useless on other DoW, but adding more cooldown to make them more of an emergency option. For example curing spells with cooldown ranging from 1-3min and buffs could have more heavily reduced efficiency and spells like Protect would last 1min with 5min cooldown. This would prevent DoWs being efficient self healers/buffers, but leave them a backup option for tougher fights.