Thanks for making Second Coil more accessible

[Snugglebutt]

Most of us hate the changes made only because they make the mistakes irrelevant.

When 'most of us' merely accounts for a microscopic portion of the customer base SE did the right thing. If this game only did what the hardcore or elitists wanted it would go out of business or fail just like Wildstar has done. You still have your hardcore content and new content is made for you on a constant basis, currently that is second coil savage and final coil, fact is you do not get to have everything you want and SE has to look at the big picture trying to please the other 90+% of players who wanted such changes on VERY OLD raid content.

You do not lose out in the grand scheme of things unless SE did not compensate you with new harder raid content to sink your teeth into but fact is they do give you more while also giving those who are not in the tiny minority a helping hand too. The way it works now and they way they have done this is how they have always done it and will continue to do so, if you expected something different then maybe the problem is not with SE on this regard but your expectations.

If you cannot bare the fact they do this on old content maybe long term you would be happier elsewhere and not every single person is required to love every single change they make to the game but they have the right idea in creating new challenging content for those who want that while at same time easing up and giving helping hand to those left behind on very old content like this. That helping hand will extend as far as needs to go in order to do so in regards to catching up vastly more people to the start of the harder new content despite a small amount of people who do not want them helping new players on old content as much.

[RakaMaimhov]

hunt toxicity.

Things must be very different server by server.

I see no learning parties for SCoB up in PF atm, although I can't comment on whether there have been any on my server since 2.4 at all as I have been busy with other things and haven't looked.

On the other hand, my server had an organized teamspeak channel for hunts that everyone was welcome to join. They also tried to accommodate people who didn't have TS (which required shouting around a little bit to get noticed). All that is dead now, of course, since the incentive to do hunts is gone as they don't provide useful tomes and are a harder alternative to sands/oils now. So our hunt scene was never toxic on Excalibur.

[Laesha]

I love these nerfs soooooo much. QuQ

Now I can actually go in and farm the last few glamour pieces i need without asking my static to waste raid time getting me outclassed gear. I understand, to some degree, that some people might feel robbed of the experience of beating these fights as they were initially written, but after months of raiding SCoB with crappy loot rng, i just don't care. I've done my time in these fights and am ready to move on.

I do find it silly that anyone is complaining about/blaming casual players for these nerfs though. As the patches progressed, we've seen the patterns. The pattern of nerfing old content as new content is introduced is nothing new and was almost certainly planned before ARR was even released. And this talk of entitlement. Hilarious.

[Shinun]

So if there is so much more to do, then wtf do you care about Coil?

I don't it's a vertical progression game. If your upset about nerfs to old content then your going to be mad every few patches. I use my time more for account achievements because those grinds will not be lessen. The same amount of work I have to put towards 1000 frontlines will still be the same amount needed a year from now.

[SpookyGhost]

When 'most of us' merely accounts for a microscopic portion of the customer base SE did the right thing. If this game only did what the hardcore or elitists wanted it would go out of business or fail just like Wildstar has done.

You don't have to be hardcore or elitist to want a bit of challenge, I really don't think casuals are SO casual that they just want the game to turn into a movie where they might as well not have any interaction with it at all. If I do something wrong, I want to feel as though I shouldn't do that - not that my mistakes are either a minor inconvenience or completely irrelevant. Blighted was a fantastic mechanic because you couldn't get anyone else killed, only yourself - and it was one of the most simple mechanics to deal with. But, if you messed up, you died and that taught you not to do that. Now you just completely ignore the mechanic all together and zerg the boss until he starts firing lasers. Just really doesn't feel like a mentality that players should be taught in a raid, especially one that eventually progresses to T9 and the FCoB. The sudden leap in difficulty from 8 to 9, and 9 (w/ Echo) to 10 is going to be really, really weird for newer players - similar to all the ones that want T5 nerfed because it's too hard. T1-4 nerfed taught them nothing, so now they're not prepared for T5. It just seems really, really weird.

[Zarzak]

"do this ridiculously convoluted action or you die" mechanics

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ok now that I can speak after that wtflux.

Yes because "don't face your party with this debuff" or "stop when the boss casts X" are horribly convoluted.

6-8 are BEYOND simple. The raid content in XIV is insultingly simple on day 1 that is why they didn't nerf it into the floor so you could just ignore all mechanics and still win sooner.

When 'most of us' merely accounts for a microscopic portion of the customer base SE did the right thing. If this game only did what the hardcore or elitists wanted it would go out of business or fail just like Wildstar has done.

Yep because all the games that died because they didn't cave into the people who can't handle simple simon says mechanics.... EQ, EQ2, XI........... oh wait they still produce regular content require subscriptions.

[Ophie-Mio]

When 'most of us' merely accounts for a microscopic portion of the customer base SE did the right thing.

Look at the prominent threads being made over this topic. You'll see what I mean when I say "most of us". It's meant to say "most of us" on the forums that have vocally displayed our opinion.

If this game only did what the hardcore or elitists wanted it would go out of business or fail just like Wildstar has done. You still have your hardcore content and new content is made for you on a constant basis, currently that is second coil savage and final coil, fact is you do not get to have everything you want...

I'm not hardcore. At all. I'm serious about wanting to play well. There's a difference.
I am not in a static. I never was in one that lasted beyond one run. By the time SCoB became more open via PF, I had only cleared T6 a hand full of times and T7 was on learning. I started earlier this year and was late to a lot of the parties. None of this stopped me from progressing. I made an effort.
Second coil savage is not the same as regular SCoB. To say it is is naive.
FCoB is also static territory right now.
It should be stated instead that the "casuals" (i.e people who are actually lazy and get to hide behind the term) who don't want to actually learn the fights shouldn't get everything they want. Even casuals like myself that want nothing to do with statics because I want the freedom to do what I wanna do want to learn fights and be proud for downing something.

...while also giving those who are not in the tiny minority a helping hand too.

But they aren't giving them a helping hand. They are leading people to the troughs. Echo buff/more accessibility to higher ilevel of gear, and getting rid of SOME of the insta-kills would have be enough to properly prepare them for the next turn. As it stands right now, T6-T7 can't help anyone and T9 will have threads like T5 where people bitch and moan about it being so damn hard in comparison to anything else.

If you cannot bare the fact they do this on old content maybe long term you would be happier elsewhere

Considering that even the EX primals don't get nerfed down to such extremes after they are old content makes this statement silly. People still dread Titan EX.
Also, Ramuh EX proved that the echo buff was all that was needed to give more people the ability to clear that fight. He didn't need 80-90% of his mechanics changed.

[Maero]

Meh some of you take it too seriously. While i don't exactly agree with it, we should have all known it was going to happen
Also High Allagan gear is not that great anymore anyhow.....
Wether it will be a better experience if you use df to do these now is to be seen however

[Kuwagami]

Yep because all the games that died because they didn't cave into the people who can't handle simple simon says mechanics.... EQ, EQ2, XI........... oh wait they still produce regular content require subscriptions.

we could argue about Simon says being simple but who cares...

Just so you know, the MMOs you quoted are from an other era, with different needs and expectations from different players, and which now survive on the persistent player base they gathered other the years. You can't possibly compare them to the modern MMO market. Not if you want to be taken for serious.

[craig_meredith2003]

The debate here just like in another thread reminds me of politics. Each side believes they are right and no amount of discussion is going to sway the other. Doesn't really matter what SE does someone is going to be upset.