Thanks for making Second Coil more accessible

[Nalien]

I wonder the same. What is the point of purposely waiting for something to get so nerfed down that you are gifted gear for as minimal effort as possible? Word that comes to mind is "entitled".

Funny, the word that comes to my mind for people who want Coil to remain as is (even though Savage mode is untouched) is "entitled", too. I mean, when you've done the content already, how exactly does SE opening it up to a greater range of players effect you, exactly? It's nothing more than elitist entitlement, you enjoyed the content but Gods forbid they lower the bar so others can. How dare they cater to filthy casuals as well. How about you just get over it and go back to enjoying the Final Coil of Bahamut, instead? Or Savage mode which players just doing Second Coil will probably never touch?

I also find it hilarious that you think nerfed Coil for the Duty Finder is something that means players are "gifted gear for as minimal effort as possible"... Have you tried t5 on the Duty Finder?

[Tupsi]

I mean, when you've done the content already, how exactly does SE opening it up to a greater range of players effect you, exactly?

As mean as this will sound I'll be straightforward:

If you do runs outside of your FC and/or static, SE opening it up to more people mean you'll be bashing your head against the wall trying to clear content with people who barely could get past T5 and still barely can get past T5 with 25% buff.

Now ask yourself this question:

If people can barely get past T5 the finally beat it after the nerfs (yes there were some including reduced HP) and obviously didn't touch 2nd coil until it was buffed with echo..how do you expect to get past T6-9 with them which is more mechanic driven than First Coil? It doesn't affect you like "omg my specialness!" it makes life harder if people need nerfs in order to do content. I don't really see the ones complaining as a 'temper tantrum' and more "Why didn't you attempt the content before SE went in and nerfed it and applied the Echo?"

So does it affect me? Not really, but does it mean something for the community? Definitely. There's a reason the community is pretty toxic when it comes to progression content and when it gets "accessible".

[Nalien]

As mean as this will sound I'll be straightforward:

I've seen more learning party shouts today than I've seen in the past month for Second Coil. That is how they've opened it up to a greater number of players. It is easier to complete, you can fill missing slots easily with the Duty Finder (Duty Finder is only really hell when everyone goes in solo), and the elitist stigma is gone, at least partially. By no means is it now accessible to every single player, but these changes have made it more accessible than it previously was. That is a simple fact.

I don't really see the ones complaining as a 'temper tantrum' and more "Why didn't you attempt the content before SE went in and nerfed it and applied the Echo?"

Same reason not everyone enjoys Dark Souls? Not everyone playing this game is playing it for the challenge, some people just want to casually enjoy the content; the difficulty and elitist attitude previously surrounding Second Coil is now partially gone, and the people who do want a challenge now have Final Coil and still have Savage mode. There is nothing to complain about here, just temper tantrums.

[ReplicaX]

There's a reason the community is pretty toxic when it comes to progression content and when it gets "accessible".

There are too many variables out there from both sides of the fence Tupsi and you know them so I will refrain from repeatedly listing them. I think SE handles dated content well for something they have stated since Day One. Some folks seriously just need to let go from both sides.

[XoanGrahm]

Funny, the word that comes to my mind for people who want Coil to remain as is (even though Savage mode is untouched) is "entitled", too.

The thing is, there is a difference. It is entitlement to expect the same rewards for less effort. Those not wanting it to be nerfed expect you to work just as hard for the things they did(gear or clear). That's not entitlement, its fairness.

To those that say we all pay the same amount for the game we should all have the same access, you do. If your knowledge, perseverance, and execution are up to par. Its like saying everyone pays the same for college, we should all get degrees regardless. But I garauntee that not everyone will get that degree. Why, because they don't have the knowledge, the preseverence, or are unable to execute. Would you want a college dropout in the same job pool as you as a engineer? or a doctor?

[Nalien]

snip

Difference being, this is a video game, not a diploma. Half the responses on this topic make me wonder how some people don't blow a fuse when a game has a difficulty setting; "I PLAYS SKYRIM ON LEGENDARY DIFFICULTY! EVERYONE SHOULD! QQ".

Granted, t6-8 are an outright nerf, rather than optional scale (which Echo is), but they're also fluff content. The only turns which actually matter, as far as I'm concerned, at t9/12/13. Every other "boss" is just forgettable with time.

If you want to compare this to anything in real life, compare it to eating; my distant ancestors had to hunt down their food and cook it next to a fire. I just buy it from a retailer and stick it in an oven for a few minutes. That isn't unfair, it's called progress.

I don't even know why this matters in regards to Second Coil... Hunts and Scyrus Tower pretty much let players get i110 easier than you did with Second Coil. Poetics let players get i120 easier. All this change does, at best, is let people farm vanity gear easier and progress the story. Why does it matter that players can get High Allagan easier now, when everyone is running around in i120 currently?

It isn't really honest to say they're putting less effort in for the same rewards as you did. They're not. You put effort in for the highest tier gear in the game. They're putting "less" effort in for i110 when i130 is a thing. The rewards they're getting are weaker by virtue of the game having higher tier gear now. The rewards you got were identical, but at the time it was the highest tier and thus "worth" more.

[Riepah]

...

I have to agree, aside from your first sentence, anyway. I want to know what kind of reason they have for not putting things into the DF sooner, what kind of harm is there in letting people get some practice and experience in fights, and possibly sometimes get a good enough group together to actually clear a turn?
The content should be what's challenging, not getting a group together to even attempt it - honestly, getting a group together seems more difficult than most content itself. They should slap coil in DF early on, without Echo, without nerfs, just your normal, regular coil, PROPERLY in DF, not "you still need a full group to sign up for it" until they nerf it.

[Kuwagami]

Why do people wait for content to get nerfed to play a game? Why not unsub and wait till the game is almost dead and then play?

how do less skilled people (or people without the time to learn the mechanics, etc... put the wanted category here) dare not to do the content day one ?

Just so you know, around december 2013, roughly 50% of the end game players had beaten Titan HM (yep, HM) due to various reasons, "Landslide + lag" being the most recurrent. That was at 2.1's launch.

Now, I'd estimate around 25% the players who have access to T6 and further, and about 5% the players who have access to T10 and further. All these people do not wait. They either try as hard as they can with the little time they have (or random pugs) or they stopped to worry at all about the Coil and its headaches. All these people actually enjoy the nerfs because they mean the content becomes accessible for everyone, not only those who met the conditions (more or less constant group, lots of time and dedication learning it, etc...)

I never took the liberty of setting up a group to clear the content. I only used party finder and always struggled, because it would always be a different group. I mean, why commit to something? Obviously I refuse to acknowledge my own inadequacy and refuse to learn from mistakes. Challenging content is boring and takes too much time. So thank you SE for making second coil easier and thus not prepping me for the difficulty of final coil and giving me confirmation that laziness and inadequacy will be rewarded.

you're bad at trolling and clearly do not understand the point of nerfing old and useless content. Your world must be sad.

I mean, when you've done the content already, how exactly does SE opening it up to a greater range of players effect you, exactly?

QFT

[Alaric1025]

Why do people wait for content to get nerfed to play a game? Why not unsub and wait till the game is almost dead and then play?

It is not that i waited, i barely got into the game this past August, and still haven't cleared T5. I still probably wouldn't see these "nerfed" turns for a while until i find a group that is dedicated enough to clear T5.

[Shinun]

Why do people wait for content to get nerfed to play a game? Why not unsub and wait till the game is almost dead and then play?

I could also ask why waste hours of your life doing 1 aspect of ingame content that's only going to be obsolete and nerfed in the future. Theirs more then just raiding in the game to do.