Rejoice ninjas!

[Coldbrand]

I wouldn't bother continuing to argue Nailen, they don't seem to grasp basic design elements in terms of player engagement (IE: Game Feel, XIV sans positional = literally removing the last element of physical execution involved from rotations.) They're also hyper focusing on highly controlled situations IE endgame with a static where (ideally) everything runs perfectly smooth and there's no variance.

[Nalien]

And still - monks have higher dps than ninjas.

I... Know? All I'm saying is that Monk (and Dragoon) should have higher DPS, because the hardest thing Ninja has to do is not button mash... Please ignore Doctor Pepper, I have never really advocated nerfing Ninja (outside PvP), simply that Ninja should come third out of the three, which is something he himself expects when Dragoon gets buffed.

What I've been saying is simple; Ninja has a single potency nerf if mistakes are made, every 60 seconds. Dragoon, and more so Monk, can have the same issue constantly. Monk specifically can lose Greased Lightning to mechanics, while Ninja just keeps Venom and Huton up almost without effort (or without as far as Venoms go). Because of this, Ninja should come third, not second.

Why the hell people think I want positional requirements on Ninja I'll never know...

[Aethaeryn]

DRGs been trampling on the NINs lately... so many NINs who think there immune to mechanics lately =\

Also, I'm pretty sure Yoshie said way back in 2.0 land that he will do everything he can to prevent nerfs from happening, and if you look back at class changes, very few nerfs have come to jobs. Most of the changes have been buffs.

They'd be getting hit by the same attacks if they were on monk and dragoon. I don't know why people think a specific job has anything to do with someone failing to address fight mechanics.

And yeah, Yoshida did say that, and then blm and bard were subsequently nerfed in 2.1 (part of blm's was a scathe nerf because it was too strong in frontlines...because that means it needs to be nerfed in pve too!). BLM has been buffed since, but the point is that there is precedence for job nerfing. Hopefully DRG will get the buff it deserves and that will be the end of it, but people are right to be concerned.

[Kaze3434]

I'm not even advocating a nerf to the job, I don't even really feel the need for a buff, and the job plays IDENTICALLY to what I'd predict after having read the abilities the night the patch came out. There wasn't really any room for surprise. I'll use Doton when there will be several enemies or one large enemy in place for a duration of time, katon for group burst, raiton when huton is up and suiton fuidama is taken care of. I'll gain ring of thorns with no complexity, and two disembowel rip offs. Oh and the two elements of life surge split into two different abilities, except it also resets my main cooldown. Doesn't really sound like anything new to be perfectly honest. If there's a WAR in the party I can even ignore keeping up the debuff which MNKs require a second MNK to achieve. Cool.

on a group i can see, but one? how is anyone thinking this is a good idea? raiton and suiton are the go to moves on a single target. doton you are losing dps. the heavy affect only works on things that heavy itself works on, so that cant be used as an excuse either. the only time suiton is used is when trick/sneak attack are ready to be used. kassatsu only ensures a crit, it doesnt have a gain life back. the only move a ninja has that does that is mug if you use a specific venom. as for the debuff for slashing, if there isnt a war ninja has to do it. if there is, its a bonus. its the same thing if there is a second monk.
its like you havent played ninja in end game.... oh wait.

[Felessan]

I... Know? All I'm saying is that Monk (and Dragoon) should have higher DPS, because the hardest thing Ninja has to do is not button mash... Please ignore Doctor Pepper, I have never really advocated nerfing Ninja (outside PvP), simply that Ninja should come third out of the three, which is something he himself expects when Dragoon gets buffed.

I really don't get it. Why do you think that "have to move 2 steps around boss" should be more rewarding that "cannot spam abilities"?
Both are demanding and requires certain skill especially in mechanics-heavy fights. Why one should be rewarding and another should be just ignored? Because you like one and not the other?

I don't mind dragoon to do more damage than NIN, but not because of this "movement", but rather because their utility is lower than monk and ninja.

[Aethaeryn]

... they don't seem to grasp basic design elements in terms of player engagement (IE: Game Feel, XIV sans positional = literally removing the last element of physical execution involved from rotations.) They're also hyper focusing on highly controlled situations IE endgame with a static where (ideally) everything runs perfectly smooth and there's no variance.

I'm not hyper focusing, I'm just saying that no one cares about losing some dps in a dungeon you farm 500 times before new content is added.

You are awfully good at putting words in my mouth too. I don't like positionals, which is the whole reason I switched from monk to ninja. I don't think they should add positional requirements to all ninja attacks just because you find it somehow difficult and enjoyable. Not everything has to be exactly the same. There are enough similarities between all jobs already. FFXIV is not a complex game in terms of class/job mechanics.

[Nalien]

Why one should be rewarding and another should be just ignored? Because you like one and not the other?

Ninjutsu IS rewarded. Like I said earlier, Ninja boasts the highest potency in ability damage.

This certainly isn't about me liking Monk or Dragoon either. Ninja is my favorite Job in this game currently, I'm simply under no allusions that Ninjutsu are difficult to pull off, or that the base rotation is in any way a problem.

its rewarded if you input correctly. mess up a ninjutsu, and you get your rabbit. kinda like how when you dont hit flank and dont get ht, except you can keep trying for HT for as long as you want.(dps loss on both ends)

If ninja make mistakes with ninjutsu, his dps is just obliterated. Be it Huton, Raiton or Suiton. It's a part of job - to either know how to keep GL on you or never make a mistake with jutsu.

I'd really love to know how you're both messing up a simple 1 2, or 1 2 3 ability combo, I really would... Sadly, I've reached my idiotic daily post limit though.

It's a part of job - to either know how to keep GL on you or never make a mistake with jutsu.

This specifically though... You lose Greased Lightning when a mob decides to bugger off. When a mob decides to bugger off you do not suddenly hit Ten Ten Ten and get a Rabbit Medium.

To everybody in this thread defending ninja, you come across as somebody who wants to see nerfs because you are making arguments about how easy the job is due to lack of positional requirements, it's as simple as that.

I suggest you all brush up on your reading comprehension then, because "Ninja is easy to play" =/= "Nerf Ninja!" or "Make Ninja harder!". I'm not going to take the blame for others assuming I want, again, what is my favorite Job, changed.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm getting all this heat for daring not to play on dial up so that Ninjutsu combinations end up being easy for me to achieve...

Also, if the boss 'buggers off' while I'm in the middle of casting raiton, I'm screwed for 20 seconds.

I doubt you'll see this (seriously SE, why do we have a daily post limit? christ...), but pro tip; Always do Jin > Chi for Raiton. If the mob buggers off you can just add Ten and get Huton and adjust your Ninjutsu rotation accordingly (Huton > Suiton > Raiton becomes Huton > Raiton > Sution, for example). Most of the time a mob jumps its a predictable mechanic, though.

[Felessan]

What I've been saying is simple; Ninja has a single potency nerf if mistakes are made, every 60 seconds.

If ninja make mistakes with ninjutsu, his dps is just obliterated. Be it Huton, Raiton or Suiton. It's a part of job - to either know how to keep GL on you or never make a mistake with jutsu.

[Kaze3434]

Ninjutsu IS rewarded. Like I said earlier, Ninja boasts the highest potency in ability damage.

This certainly isn't about me liking Monk or Dragoon either. Ninja is my favorite Job in this game currently, I'm simply under no allusions that Ninjutsu are difficult to pull off.

its rewarded if you input correctly. mess up a ninjutsu, and you get your rabbit. kinda like how when you dont hit flank and dont get ht, except you can keep trying for HT for as long as you want.(dps loss on both ends)

[DoctorPepper]

Why the hell people think I want positional requirements on Ninja I'll never know...

The reason people are coming to this conclusion is because you keep saying ninja is easier due to lack of positional requirements.

I'll admit it was an assumption on my part but you need to understand that people simply don't want to see jobs nerfed, period, and there have been threads and people calling for nerfs under the sole idea that positional requirements are hard which they are not.

The majority of the fights, with some exceptions like titan ex, will not have the boss turning around consistently and even those fights that do are typically predictable patterns that can be avoided fairly easily by simply learning the fight. I agree that positional requirements can be annoying as fuck, especially if you don't know a fight very well, but people are in here defending ninja because crybabies have been calling for a ninja nerf even after a dragoon buff has already been confirmed by the devs so what do you expect?

To everybody in this thread defending ninja, you come across as somebody who wants to see nerfs because you are making arguments about how easy the job is due to lack of positional requirements, it's as simple as that.