Thread: 2.41 patch, Ninja nerf for the Ninjas and Dungeons.

Originally Posted by Ephier

No one wants the Mudras more powerful. We just want them to fix the input delay on them.

At which point, preforming Ninjutsu stops being "hard", and the argument that "Ninja is powerful because Ninjutsu is hard" falls flat, which was the point I was originally arguing against.

The idea that Monk and Ninja are difficult to play, so that's why they're better than Dragoon, completely baffles me. Ninja camps a mobs butt for Trick Attack every 60 seconds, it's the easiest to play. Monk moves between Flank/Rear, and failing to meet those requirements doesn't slow down your rotation. I would honestly say Dragoon is the "hardest" to play, simply because being unable to get the requirements messes with your rotation (I guess there's also the issue of Dragoon having ability animation lock while Monk doesn't), honestly though they're all easy to play.

Originally Posted by Ephier

You are just agreeing with my points here. There is no other class in the game that is latency dependent. Ninja is the only one. All other classes can be played smoothly with upwards of 140 ping.

Well, I don't think we really disagreed anyway, more misunderstood. I disagreed with another posters notion than Ninja and Monk are harder than Dragoon, and the only reason anyone could claim Ninja is hard is Ninjutsu latency. Sitting on a mobs rear is not hard, after all. Nor is weaving between flank and rear, for that matter, but whatever.

Originally Posted by Nalien

At which point, preforming Ninjutsu stops being "hard", and the argument that "Ninja is powerful because Ninjutsu is hard" falls flat, which was the point I was originally arguing against.

The idea that Monk and Ninja are difficult to play, so that's why they're better than Dragoon, completely baffles me. Ninja camps a mobs butt for Trick Attack every 60 seconds, it's the easiest to play. Monk moves between Flank/Rear, and failing to meet those requirements doesn't slow down your rotation. I would honestly say Dragoon is the "hardest" to play, simply because being unable to get the requirements messes with your rotation, honestly though they're all easy to play.

Well, I don't think we really disagreed anyway, more misunderstood. I disagreed with another posters notion than Ninja and Monk are harder than Dragoon, and the only reason anyone could claim Ninja is hard is Ninjutsu latency. Sitting on a mobs rear is not hard, after all. Nor is weaving between flank and rear, for that matter, but whatever.

I honestly think Dragoons are the hardest melee in the game. They have a blessing and a curse of having a set in stone rotation, but are plagued by positionals. Also Ninjas damage should not be justified by their "difficulty" because they are not hard to play. Mudras are just really annoying with the inconsistency.

Originally Posted by Ephier

I honestly think Dragoons are the hardest melee in the game. They have a blessing and a curse of having a set in stone rotation, but are plagued by positionals. Also Ninjas damage should not be justified by their "difficulty" because they are not hard to play. Mudras are just really annoying with the inconsistency.

Agreed. The only reason I even think Raiton should be nerfed is because it utterly wreaks people in PvP (especially double Raiton), but that nerf can be applied solely to PvP. Other than that I just think the range on it is ridiculous, since it renders Fuma Shuriken completely moot. 5y on Raiton seems reasonable, range and potency seems overpowered to me.

I guess there's also the issue of DoT; Ninja offers 70 potency/tic in DoTs, Monk 65, and Dragoon 55 (iirc). Given the fact that Ninja and Monk have zero directional requirements, while Dragoon requires a rear attack for the Chaos Thrust combo, they seem backwards. Perhaps they feel the superior instant potency of Chaos Thrust balances that out, though.

Originally Posted by Scrammbles

this is so wrong lol /facepalm

Because it sounds wrong, or because having only a single directional requirement in Trick Attack is somehow harder than the multiple Monk and Dragoon have? Heck, if you have a Warrior tank you can knock Dancing Edge off your rotation on Ninja, it is insanely easy to play. Ninjas rotation is both less complex than Dragoon or Monks, and has no directional requirements outside Trick Attack. It is by far the easiest of the three to play.

Originally Posted by Scrammbles

you are judging the difficulty of a class by the amount of positionals it has. that alone is just illogical.

How so? More positional moves = more chance to fail them, weakening your DPS. Even if we ignore that though, Ninja simply has an easier basic rotation anyway (primarily because of Venoms being a static buff rather than an additional effect from part of its rotation), again more so with a Warrior tank since you can just cut Dancing Edge out completely.

Ninja is the Bard of melee DPS. Anyone who thinks it is a difficult Job to play needs to stop deluding themselves...

Originally Posted by Scrammbles

lol do me a favor and tell me your NIN rotation pls

You first, maybe then you'll realize how ridiculously simplistic it is. You can keep ignoring simple facts like Ninja simply gets a damage buff, while Monk and Dragoon have to work it into their rotation, though.

Originally Posted by Velhart

I like how that this guy does not even have Rogue unlocked yet and telling people if the job is easy or hard.

I like how you're assuming this account is the one I play.

Originally Posted by Velhart

Doesn't all sound too bad, but dealing with a boss with a lot of mechanics can make keeping up all of this very difficult.

So... It doesn't sound too bad, but when dealing with boss mechanics which everyone has to deal with, it becomes difficult?

Again; Ninja just has to glue itself to a mobs butt for Trick Attack. Monk and Dragoon have to weave between rear and flank. "When dealing with lots of mechanics" already makes itself twice as "difficult" for them. Ninja can miss Trick Attack every 60 seconds. Dragoon can mess up its rotation every time it gets to Heavy Thrust or Impulse Drive. Monk can lose potency at almost every turn, and can typically say goodbye to Greased Lightning at various mechanics. Ninja simply is easier to play, and it will remain that way as long as Monk and Dragoon have to continually apply their damage buff while Ninja just gets to keep it up full time.

Originally Posted by Tonkra

this is the only point which i think is quiet ridiculous... i mean for what do i have a permanent buff, that grants me 10% additional damage? for what? Then they could increase the damage of ninja in general by 10% and leave that nonsense buff completely out..

i rather would have liked if the venom buff grants you a 10% chance to inflict poison on your enemy.. would have made much more sense than this permanent buff.. and it would fit to the skill name as well.

At the very least I was hoping it would wear off... Perhaps have it as an Aetherflow style buff which lasts for X GCD attacks, since it is fairly odd that venoms I've applied to my blades are some how effecting the damage of my magical lightning stance... That at least makes for a fairly interesting secondary mechanic of balancing which venom you have for Mug/Jugulate and even having venom at all for various parts of your rotation.

Ninja isn't hard to play. There is a set rotation just like every other class and once you learn it the class becomes simple.

As for ninjutsu,
Huton -> Suiton-> (Kass+Raiton/Doton)-> Raiton/Doton -> Repeat

I've also never had trouble with mudra combos. Learn to queue your spells and stop button mashing.

Also, the excuse of boss mechanics is bad. You can ninjutsu while moving, Huton is applied to you, Raiton is long range and Suiton's buff lasts for 10 seconds.

Originally Posted by Nalien

Ninja is the Bard of melee DPS. Anyone who thinks it is a difficult Job to play needs to stop deluding themselves...