Carraway's Guide to the New Archer: 1.18 and Beyond

[Murugan]

Just an FYI while i was testing BFB i was also using bloodletter and at no point did it do "dot" damage, the only damage bloodletter does is still the end tick after 30 seconds.

Also i can personally see Bloodletter giving a higher benefit if staggered when using 2 archers and on a fight with only 1 enemy or on extremely high defense enemies where weaponskills are doing far less damage, however on the moogle fight i think if you are bringing 4-5 archers like we do and most LS's do than organizing a rotation that wont overall lower the parties damage output would take a decent amount of practice and in most cases will barely break even with having all archers just spam cooldowns.

Most moogles in phase 1 for us die too fast for Bloodletter to take effect the main benefit would be in phase 2 where the moogles generally take longer to die due to kiting and controlling the fight, coordinating a Bloodletter rotation during this time would just be a hindrance to most peoples tactics.

I agree though that if you see Bloodletter is currently up on the target and has been for a while you are better off holding off that Bloodletter for a while, but with the hectic nature of phase 2 that can be tricky even for the most experienced archers especially when you are focusing more on winning the fight and not winning the Bloodletter dot damage award.

How much damage do your Bloodletters do? I see them generally do:

on Whiskerwall:
Bloodletter does 200-300 on average though I have done as much as 400 on rare occasions.
light shot I tend do 50-80 on whiskerwall (however I will say the animation and delay for bloodletter is longer than light shot for me at least)
170-210 on Heavy Shot. (which also has a slightly faster animation)

A difference of 200-380

on Pomburner with the low(est?) defense:

Bloodletter does 600 maybe if you are real lucky, more likely it does between 250 and 400.
Light shot does as much of 325 and averages between 240-270.
Heavy shot does as much as 448 and averages between 315-360

So a difference of 360.

So by reducing your DPS by 360 you only gain 570 damage, so really you only gain ~210 damage.


Except none of that is true. How would you not fire bloodletter off in 80 seconds (bloodletter's cooldown) just because you were trying to avoid overwriting a 20 second DoT. If you all fire at once, and the Moogle is only going to live 30 seconds great. During the 2nd Phase if you are kiting Bloodletter is great as it allows you to kite while continuing to do damage (whether they removed the DoT portion and Square Enix simply lied when they wrote:

Bloodletter

Delivers a ranged attack. Chance to inflict a bleed effect.
Combo Action: Gloom Arrow
Combo Bonus: Inflicts additional damage when bleed fades.
TP: 1500 / Recast Time: 80sec. / Duration: 30sec.

in the patch notes or not) with the end damage inflicted by the combo. So it is definitely worth it. I'm not advocating people stop using Bloodletter, simply that perhaps they should consider applying some critical thought to the encounter to determine whether mindlessly spamming a combo because it is its "turn" in yout rotation overwriting someone else's DoT instead of waiting between 20-1 seconds is really worth it.


Edit: Maybe you are confused what I am talking about. When Bloodletter lands it has a chance of leaving a DoT, this looks like the bloodletter icon, when that wears off it does extra damage. Bloodletter does not always apply the debuff (it definitely seems to be a lower chance than in 1.18). If you see this icon it means there is a DoT on the mob, and you should not fire another Bloodletter until it has worn off.

[Penguin]

Dot generally means "damage over time" atleast from my experience which fits with spells like how poison, dia, bio etc worked pre patch.
There is no Dot effect on Bloodletter and never has been so yes i may have been confused as to what dot you were referring to, the debuff effect of Bloodletter lasts 30 seconds and for me does exactly 570 damage no matter if you use it in the combo or outside the combo meaning either the effect is bugged or just not showing the correct damage.

Also personally although i haven't done extensive testing using fraps to time how long it exactly takes to do a full 3 step combo i am almost positive you can do a 3 step combo in the same amount of time or maybe even less than it would take to do 3 lightshots especially considering they are on a 4 second cooldown.

The rest of your post i don't really know what you are trying to get at, i already said that Bloodletter is extremely effective on high defense targets and so i agree on high defense targets a Bloodletter rotation would be optimal, however only 1 of the 8 moogles in the moogle fight has high enough defense for this to be the case and since the GLA moogle is usually killed last for us it seems pointless to discuss a Bloodletter rotation when by that time you have won the fight.

If other LS's are trying to kill the GLA moogle earlier than last than sure trying a Bloodletter rotation might be beneficial although i personally don't understand why you would kill it earlier since its the least harmful of all the moogles and more of an annoyance than a problem.

[carraway]

I think we're essentially all on the same page, since we all want our groups to be doing the most damage possible. I'll edit the Bloodletter portion of the guide to advise using your best judgment in particular situations (not Bloodlettering when a mob is about to die, not overwriting Bloodletter that's about to proc, staggering rotations if you have only two or three archers).

(In the past, Bloodletter has never had an actual DoT effect, only a damage proc at the end of the debuff's duration)

[NoctisUmbra]

Interesting. Then it seems Bloodletter either still needs to be fixed, or the description needs to be changes since it has always mentioned a DoT.

[Penguin]

Interesting. Then it seems Bloodletter either still needs to be fixed, or the description needs to be changes since it has always mentioned a DoT.

Yeah i don't know if that is just a mistranslation or just a misinterpretation of what Bloodletter does but i have never seen it actually do damage over time damage only ever the damage at the end of the effect.

Also as i said it does seem to be bugged currently either in the log or in what damage it actually does since the additional effect from using it in the combo seems to imply using it in the combo causes it to do more damage, yet i have never seen it do more than 570 which is also the same damage as Bloodletter does without using it in a combo.

[NoctisUmbra]

Yeah i don't know if that is just a mistranslation or just a misinterpretation of what Bloodletter does but i have never seen it actually do damage over time damage only ever the damage at the end of the effect.

Also as i said it does seem to be bugged currently either in the log or in what damage it actually does since the additional effect from using it in the combo seems to imply using it in the combo causes it to do more damage, yet i have never seen it do more than 570 which is also the same damage as Bloodletter does without using it in a combo.

Right. When I read the description for the new Bloodletter I thought it would normally always do DoT, but only when used in a combo it would proc the static end damage. Seems that is not the case, but there definitely is a discrepancy between what is actually happening and what the WS description says will happen.

[Murugan]

Yeah i don't know if that is just a mistranslation or just a misinterpretation of what Bloodletter does but i have never seen it actually do damage over time damage only ever the damage at the end of the effect.

Also as i said it does seem to be bugged currently either in the log or in what damage it actually does since the additional effect from using it in the combo seems to imply using it in the combo causes it to do more damage, yet i have never seen it do more than 570 which is also the same damage as Bloodletter does without using it in a combo.

DoT damage has never been in the logs ever. There is even a response from Yoshida on the matter saying that the log doesn't show it. That they know it is an issue, but for whatever reason they don't care to fix it.

That doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There are tons of DoT spells in the game, and they also don't show in the log. Would you seriously say they do no damage as well?

The description says nothing about it raising the additional damage at the end of the DoT.

"The Combo Bonus: Inflicts additional damage when bleed fades."

It doesn't do the additional damage at all if you use Bloodletter solo, only the bleed effect applies and there is no 571 at the end.

Dot generally means "damage over time" atleast from my experience which fits with spells like how poison, dia, bio etc worked pre patch.
There is no Dot effect on Bloodletter and never has been so yes i may have been confused as to what dot you were referring to, the debuff effect of Bloodletter lasts 30 seconds and for me does exactly 570 damage no matter if you use it in the combo or outside the combo meaning either the effect is bugged or just not showing the correct damage.

Also personally although i haven't done extensive testing using fraps to time how long it exactly takes to do a full 3 step combo i am almost positive you can do a 3 step combo in the same amount of time or maybe even less than it would take to do 3 lightshots especially considering they are on a 4 second cooldown.

The rest of your post i don't really know what you are trying to get at, i already said that Bloodletter is extremely effective on high defense targets and so i agree on high defense targets a Bloodletter rotation would be optimal, however only 1 of the 8 moogles in the moogle fight has high enough defense for this to be the case and since the GLA moogle is usually killed last for us it seems pointless to discuss a Bloodletter rotation when by that time you have won the fight.

If other LS's are trying to kill the GLA moogle earlier than last than sure trying a Bloodletter rotation might be beneficial although i personally don't understand why you would kill it earlier since its the least harmful of all the moogles and more of an annoyance than a problem.

Dia, Poison, Bio, Rasp, Burn, etc. etc. none of them showed in the log. Ever. I thought you all had been parsing for a while, how did you not know that DoT damage simply isn't logged???

Okay, so you say that you kill every moogle in less than 20 seconds. I would say you are probably in a very small minority. So in all the fight only takes you 8 minutes and 20 seconds. That's incredible, and you deserve everyone's applause.

For others who let's say cannot defeat all the moogles in the 2nd phase in 20 seconds each, a Bloodletter DoT/additional damage would add damage. Some really crappy groups might take 40 seconds or longer to kill a few of the moogles, so they definitely would benefit from the full use of bloodletter rather than mindless spam.

[carraway]

Have you ever just used Bloodletter and watched the HP bar of your target? No DoT.

[NoctisUmbra]

DoT damage has never been in the logs ever. There is even a response from Yoshida on the matter saying that the log doesn't show it. That they know it is an issue, but for whatever reason they don't care to fix it.

That doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There are tons of DoT spells in the game, and they also don't show in the log. Would you seriously say they do no damage as well?

The description says nothing about it raising the additional damage at the end of the DoT.

"The Combo Bonus: Inflicts additional damage when bleed fades."

It doesn't do the additional damage at all if you use Bloodletter solo, only the bleed effect applies and there is no 571 at the end.



Dia, Poison, Bio, Rasp, Burn, etc. etc. none of them showed in the log. Ever.

Okay, so you kill every moogle in less than 20 seconds. I would say you are probably in a very small minority. So in all the fight only takes you 8 minutes and 20 seconds. That's incredible, and you deserve everyone's applause.

For others who let's say cannot defeat all the moogles in the 2nd phase in 20 seconds each, a Bloodletter DoT/additional damage would add damage. Some really crappy groups might take 40 seconds or longer to kill a few of the moogles, so they definitely would benefit from the full use of bloodletter rather than mindless spam.

lol. You're arguing against in game trial and testing with a Weaponskill description? Also, I'm sure everyone speaking here is well aware that DoTs don't show up on the log. That's not the reason anyone is saying Bloodletter doesn't have a DoT effect. Hit a mob with Bloodletter and watch it's HP. See if you can see it ticking down like you did with Poison, Bio, Dia, or even any other bleed effect in game right now. That's how you test to see if there is a DoT. I'm confident the players posting here from Bluegarter are well aware in how to check if there is a DoT.

The angry, condescending demeanor of your posts isn't helping anything. Do the fight however way you'd like. Believe whatever you'd like.

[Murugan]

Have you ever just used Bloodletter and watched the HP bar of your target? No DoT.

Yeah I have.

Did you all never stack DoT's and watch the target's HP magically disappear even though no damage was shown in the log?

I'm in game right now watching it kill a Shrieker.

Maybe you don't know what the Bloodletter DoT looks like? When it hits as part of the combo it looks like the bloodletter icon, if it only inflicts the DoT (as in when you use it solo then it looks like Skull Sunder/Bloodletter used to).

Also it definitely does not do 570 additional damage at the end if not used in a combo.

Your Bloodletter hits the shrieker for 339 points of damage.
Your Bloodletter inflicts the shrieker with the effect of Bloodletter.
The shrieker's attack hits you for 243 points of damage.
Your attack hits the shrieker for 66 points of damage.
You are no longer invigorated.
The shrieker's attack hits you for 259 points of damage.
Your attack hits the shrieker for 67 points of damage.
The shrieker's stem deflates.
The target is out of range.
The shrieker readies Hypha Whip.
The shrieker's Hypha Whip hits you from the rear for 395 points of damage.
The target is too far away.
The target is out of range.
The shrieker's stem inflates!
The shrieker's stem inflates!
The shrieker no longer suffers the effect of Bloodletter.
The shrieker's attack hits you from the rear for 261 points of damage.
The shrieker's attack hits you from the rear for 262 points of damage.
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The shrieker's stem deflates.
The shrieker readies Hypha Whip.
The shrieker's Hypha Whip hits you from the rear for 408 points of damage.
The shrieker returns to its territory.
The target is too far away.

You may need to work on your testing skills. And Noctis you may want to try thinking for yourself.