Carraway's Guide to the New Archer: 1.18 and Beyond

[carraway]

I think we're essentially all on the same page, since we all want our groups to be doing the most damage possible. I'll edit the Bloodletter portion of the guide to advise using your best judgment in particular situations (not Bloodlettering when a mob is about to die, not overwriting Bloodletter that's about to proc, staggering rotations if you have only two or three archers).

(In the past, Bloodletter has never had an actual DoT effect, only a damage proc at the end of the debuff's duration)

[NoctisUmbra]

Interesting. Then it seems Bloodletter either still needs to be fixed, or the description needs to be changes since it has always mentioned a DoT.

[Penguin]

Interesting. Then it seems Bloodletter either still needs to be fixed, or the description needs to be changes since it has always mentioned a DoT.

Yeah i don't know if that is just a mistranslation or just a misinterpretation of what Bloodletter does but i have never seen it actually do damage over time damage only ever the damage at the end of the effect.

Also as i said it does seem to be bugged currently either in the log or in what damage it actually does since the additional effect from using it in the combo seems to imply using it in the combo causes it to do more damage, yet i have never seen it do more than 570 which is also the same damage as Bloodletter does without using it in a combo.

[NoctisUmbra]

Yeah i don't know if that is just a mistranslation or just a misinterpretation of what Bloodletter does but i have never seen it actually do damage over time damage only ever the damage at the end of the effect.

Also as i said it does seem to be bugged currently either in the log or in what damage it actually does since the additional effect from using it in the combo seems to imply using it in the combo causes it to do more damage, yet i have never seen it do more than 570 which is also the same damage as Bloodletter does without using it in a combo.

Right. When I read the description for the new Bloodletter I thought it would normally always do DoT, but only when used in a combo it would proc the static end damage. Seems that is not the case, but there definitely is a discrepancy between what is actually happening and what the WS description says will happen.

[Murugan]

Yeah i don't know if that is just a mistranslation or just a misinterpretation of what Bloodletter does but i have never seen it actually do damage over time damage only ever the damage at the end of the effect.

Also as i said it does seem to be bugged currently either in the log or in what damage it actually does since the additional effect from using it in the combo seems to imply using it in the combo causes it to do more damage, yet i have never seen it do more than 570 which is also the same damage as Bloodletter does without using it in a combo.

DoT damage has never been in the logs ever. There is even a response from Yoshida on the matter saying that the log doesn't show it. That they know it is an issue, but for whatever reason they don't care to fix it.

That doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There are tons of DoT spells in the game, and they also don't show in the log. Would you seriously say they do no damage as well?

The description says nothing about it raising the additional damage at the end of the DoT.

"The Combo Bonus: Inflicts additional damage when bleed fades."

It doesn't do the additional damage at all if you use Bloodletter solo, only the bleed effect applies and there is no 571 at the end.

Dot generally means "damage over time" atleast from my experience which fits with spells like how poison, dia, bio etc worked pre patch.
There is no Dot effect on Bloodletter and never has been so yes i may have been confused as to what dot you were referring to, the debuff effect of Bloodletter lasts 30 seconds and for me does exactly 570 damage no matter if you use it in the combo or outside the combo meaning either the effect is bugged or just not showing the correct damage.

Also personally although i haven't done extensive testing using fraps to time how long it exactly takes to do a full 3 step combo i am almost positive you can do a 3 step combo in the same amount of time or maybe even less than it would take to do 3 lightshots especially considering they are on a 4 second cooldown.

The rest of your post i don't really know what you are trying to get at, i already said that Bloodletter is extremely effective on high defense targets and so i agree on high defense targets a Bloodletter rotation would be optimal, however only 1 of the 8 moogles in the moogle fight has high enough defense for this to be the case and since the GLA moogle is usually killed last for us it seems pointless to discuss a Bloodletter rotation when by that time you have won the fight.

If other LS's are trying to kill the GLA moogle earlier than last than sure trying a Bloodletter rotation might be beneficial although i personally don't understand why you would kill it earlier since its the least harmful of all the moogles and more of an annoyance than a problem.

Dia, Poison, Bio, Rasp, Burn, etc. etc. none of them showed in the log. Ever. I thought you all had been parsing for a while, how did you not know that DoT damage simply isn't logged???

Okay, so you say that you kill every moogle in less than 20 seconds. I would say you are probably in a very small minority. So in all the fight only takes you 8 minutes and 20 seconds. That's incredible, and you deserve everyone's applause.

For others who let's say cannot defeat all the moogles in the 2nd phase in 20 seconds each, a Bloodletter DoT/additional damage would add damage. Some really crappy groups might take 40 seconds or longer to kill a few of the moogles, so they definitely would benefit from the full use of bloodletter rather than mindless spam.

[NoctisUmbra]

DoT damage has never been in the logs ever. There is even a response from Yoshida on the matter saying that the log doesn't show it. That they know it is an issue, but for whatever reason they don't care to fix it.

That doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There are tons of DoT spells in the game, and they also don't show in the log. Would you seriously say they do no damage as well?

The description says nothing about it raising the additional damage at the end of the DoT.

"The Combo Bonus: Inflicts additional damage when bleed fades."

It doesn't do the additional damage at all if you use Bloodletter solo, only the bleed effect applies and there is no 571 at the end.



Dia, Poison, Bio, Rasp, Burn, etc. etc. none of them showed in the log. Ever.

Okay, so you kill every moogle in less than 20 seconds. I would say you are probably in a very small minority. So in all the fight only takes you 8 minutes and 20 seconds. That's incredible, and you deserve everyone's applause.

For others who let's say cannot defeat all the moogles in the 2nd phase in 20 seconds each, a Bloodletter DoT/additional damage would add damage. Some really crappy groups might take 40 seconds or longer to kill a few of the moogles, so they definitely would benefit from the full use of bloodletter rather than mindless spam.

lol. You're arguing against in game trial and testing with a Weaponskill description? Also, I'm sure everyone speaking here is well aware that DoTs don't show up on the log. That's not the reason anyone is saying Bloodletter doesn't have a DoT effect. Hit a mob with Bloodletter and watch it's HP. See if you can see it ticking down like you did with Poison, Bio, Dia, or even any other bleed effect in game right now. That's how you test to see if there is a DoT. I'm confident the players posting here from Bluegarter are well aware in how to check if there is a DoT.

The angry, condescending demeanor of your posts isn't helping anything. Do the fight however way you'd like. Believe whatever you'd like.

[Penguin]

I went to test it again just incase it got hotfixed in the last maintenance and indeed it did, it now does a small amount of damage which i must have missed earlier since it was very small (as in maybe 50-100 damage over 30 seconds), they also fixed the non combo version doing the damage at the end aswell.

So yeah you are right Murugan it now works correctly the way it says in the tooltip, it however didn't when carraway started amending this guide 3 days ago as i personally tested it and at no point before this patch has Bloodletter ever done dot damage even though the tooltip has always referred to it as doing dot damage.

Also for reference the dot lasts 30 seconds not 20 seconds.

So yeah i can admit i was wrong even if you cant but thanks for helping fix an error in the guide.

It however doesn't change anything in the original discussion and infact knowing that the dot does now work makes me even more positive that using it whenever its off cooldown is the most beneficial dps to the entire party, considering the initial damage+dot damage should almost equal the damage at the end effect in terms of damage meaning with more than 2 archers you would be wasting damage if archers held off for some kind of rotation atleast during a fight like the moogle fight.

I don't really get your extremely aggressive and condescending posts for example your first post in this discussion you instantly attacked carraway for no apparently reason, even though he is spending his own time and effort creating this guide to help people even though he doesn't have to.

If you feel like you could write a better guide without slight mistakes or oversights than i advise you go do so.

[Murugan]

I went to test it again just incase it got hotfixed in the last maintenance and indeed it did, it now does a small amount of damage which i must have missed earlier since it was very small (as in maybe 50-100 damage over 30 seconds), they also fixed the non combo version doing the damage at the end aswell.

So yeah you are right Murugan it now works correctly the way it says in the tooltip, it however didn't when carraway started amending this guide 3 days ago as i personally tested it and at no point before this patch has Bloodletter ever done dot damage even though the tooltip has always referred to it as doing dot damage.

Also for reference the dot lasts 30 seconds not 20 seconds.

So yeah i can admit i was wrong even if you cant but thanks for helping fix an error in the guide.

It however doesn't change anything in the original discussion and infact knowing that the dot does now work makes me even more positive that using it whenever its off cooldown is the most beneficial dps to the entire party, considering the initial damage+dot damage should almost equal the damage at the end effect in terms of damage meaning with more than 2 archers you would be wasting damage if archers held off for some kind of rotation atleast during a fight like the moogle fight.

I don't really get your extremely aggressive and condescending posts for example your first post in this discussion you instantly attacked carraway for no apparently reason, even though he is spending his own time and effort creating this guide to help people even though he doesn't have to.

If you feel like you could write a better guide without slight mistakes or oversights than i advise you go do so.

How was I wrong?

And I'm sorry but Carraway wrote a guide. He didn't do charity work, this is a work of his opinion on how people should play archer in which he has copied information found in-game and patch notes.

You keep saying I am condescending, when the two of you do nothing but address every criticism of your guide with "we tested extensively" and it showed that we were right the way we are doing it is clearly better.

You rarely ever post numbers or rationale behind what you claim, and make supporting arguments like something "reduces DPS". How do you expect someone to have a constructive discussion when you leave no room for a counter argument.

Reduces DPS is saying that "oh I've already tested every possible conclusion, and the way I'm currently doing it is the indisputably superior way to do it".

Then I post for 4 more pages with the same recycled responses. Until finally Akuun posts and you finally relent. Only I thought I saw that Akuun quit in the general forums, so I guess that won't happen this time. The only other person who seems to be involved in the "discussion" here is Noctis and I doubt he is going to suddenly start criticizing anything you write.

[carraway]

Have you ever just used Bloodletter and watched the HP bar of your target? No DoT.