Thread: Carraway's Guide to the New Archer: 1.18 and Beyond

Thank you very much. I'm not trying to start a fight with my LS mates, but they all act Like I'm a crazy noob when I say that I'd prefer brig over alpine.

Originally Posted by carraway

To clarify, what you're suggesting is only holding Light Shots for 3-arrow Multishots when buffs are available? Your delineated example misses a Multishot cooldown and slips on Raging Strike II cooldown unnecessarily (unless you're assuming its inclusion along with your mass of other buffs), so I want to make sure I'm interpreting you clearly.

Yes, I'd be glad to post a parse/attempt to manually calculate my DPS next time we run through.



I just forgot to add one in at the 45 second mark, but when playing I never slip on my raging strike/multishot cooldown as that is my main focus. I use Raging Strike 2-1 with the other buffs for a sole multishot most of the time, and for trifurcate when it is available (trifurcate I don't always keep on cooldown but rather wait the extra 10 seconds for raging strikes since I generally don't have time to do it 3 times in a fight anyways since fights rarely last 6:40+).

Also yes only hold multishot 6 seconds before Ferocity/Cadence/Murderous Intent/Keen Flurry (Keen Flurry is by far the better accuracy buff from my testing)/Blindside II are all available, during that 6 seconds I burn TP skills and Heavy Shot, once I start buffing I hold for the remaining 9 seconds (or more like 3-4 seconds taking into account the time to buff). When doing BR's of course I time my BR call to take all this into account so I am not waiting any longer, and no one is hopefully waiting for me (of course nothing you can do about Ogre stuns, that I know of at least).

I see the confusion you thought I was always holding multi shots like Archers did pre-1.18? No, it is just to make most use of full bursts.

Just tried it for myself on an ogre fight with very little slippage on cooldowns and I dropped by 5+ DPS. However, it could be a fluke due to being distracted or due to my unfamiliarity with this permutation. Theoretically I still fully believe that buffing 2-arrow shots is better than holding buffs and a few shots for fully buffed 3-arrow shots, but I'm willing to perform further testing to confirm/corroborate.

Originally Posted by Murugan

since fights rarely last 6:40+

Wait, are you talking about all fights in general, like Batraal, or just ogre?

Originally Posted by tachikoma

Mugen post a parser img with 33+ dps using this parser: http://www.fileswap.com/share/index.php?id=ho9RoeTU

I've seen consistent 30+ with carraways original rotation focusing on spreading buffs and omitting many of the useless buffs like "blindside"<-complete trash and "keen flury" etc which are more time waisters then anything. (note the rotation carraway posted mostly focus's on speed of light shot and assumes your ls is NOT doing BR's)

Is this your edited version of the Parser? What is the point of selecting mobs? Because that didn't even work for me on Batraal (which I'd love to get a real parse on not screwed up by skeleton damage). I also have to say I hate real time parsing first of all it is awkward alt tabbing before/after fight when I need to be skipping the cutscene, it is a huge pain having to back up my old logs, and multi fight parsing simply doesn't work (for me at least). When I parse I usually hunt through the logs for an encounter and parse them in a separate folder.


As a pugilist I'd like to quickly take the chance to respond to your saying that Blindside is useless with a:

[SIZE="5"]YOU'RE USELESS!!! YOU'RE USELESS TACHIKOMA!!!!![/SIZE]
(but seriously I do disagree with this unless you can't get behind the mob then yes it is useless, however during Ogre our tank angles the mob so we can hit from behind when below or on top level it is one of the better Damage buffs 10-20%).


On a more conciliatory note if you are collaborating on Irparser now great work and I look forward to the future of parsing in this game with such dedicated people behind the project! Though I noticed that crit damage isn't shown on the graph in your version which I personally like. Finally since Bloodletter can't be shown for a particular person could you setup a tracking for just bloodletter damage, so we can see what % of the fight bloodletter end damage is doing?

Also I don't know that I fully buy these DPS numbers, my first parse was all messed up giving me 26 DPS only which I don't think was right as I felt like it was my better run (that parse also got messed up because I left it running thinking I could parse batraal from the same logs... which unfortunately did not work), but toward the end of the night I tried again and managed to get 33 DPS trying so hard I worked up a sweat and probably cut my keyboard's lifespan in half with all the feverish mashing.

I realize it is not 33+, but in all fairness I only have a Crab Bow +2, don't have invigorate II and maybe you guys have less lag than me because I know I missed fractions of seconds off my light shots many times (which might be why I prefer burst/BR style).


So even though it is not technically better, I still stand by my assertion that it is the better playstyle (for most archers at least). Since I and other Archers in our LS started using it our damage has shot way up (this is the first time I've seen "accurate dps" so I can't be 100% certain, but it just doesn't seem right to me).


Real time Parse: Deepvoid Slave, No BR's, no major debuffs other than a Maim once towards the end...
http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/1...0924045740.png
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/8948/breakdown.png


Disclaimer: This fight probably took a little longer than yours. I believe fight was between 4-5 minutes I can't tell exactly but I think closer to 4.

So that I suppose could explain your difference in damage because if the fight ends right before the 1:05 mark on your buffs you are going to show significantly less damage from burst style. That doesn't mean it is less damage, I think that technically it still should be better even if ending at the worst possible time but its best damage comes from when it dies to a burst or soon after.

I encourage you guys to keep trying it (especially if you are just running darkhold to sell drops!!), as for myself I'm going back to BR's before I lose them.

If we do more runs w/o BR I'll give your method a try, but I'm not sure I understand it because it looks like from your breakdown you start the fight with Ferocity but no raging strike? So you don't do a burst until 1:06 in the fight? Also did you just not include your other buffs when you say 3 arrow shot, or do you not use them? (muderous/cadence/ferocity/keen flurry (I think you use hawk's eye instead)\

I think you should try keen flurry though it is better in my experience (hawk's eye seems pretty worthless to me I don't notice a difference in accuracy with or without it, but Keen Flurry rarely ever misses).

Originally Posted by carraway

Wait, are you talking about all fights in general, like Batraal, or just ogre?

Batraal too, you probably fight batraal from the circle but we have to move to take it down so I use that time to do a full burst multi (it lines up perfectly in fact making our archers not really waste any time at all bringing it down), and use trifurcate with raging again. If you fight it from circle maybe it isn't. But again we are usually doing BR so because of that it is the obvious choice (3-4 full BR=dead Batraal).

I'd say it is even better on Batraal because we do our Batraal's like this currently:

Circle buffing>BR
Melee>melee>melee>Mage>Mage>Archer>Archer

So my Raging Strike Trifurcate/TP spam has the phys debuff boosting it as well. When we pull this off without a hitch it is awesome. They better bring back a BR system soon or I can see myself getting bored with simple rotational combat (I'll likely switch back to pugilist or another class if that is the case).

That is impressive as i didn't really expect that rotation to do 30+ dps but a few things i want to clarify 1st.

Any chance next time you can try to note down what time the fight started and what time it ended, also when did you start the parser? because currently the dps bar on it isn't accurate so we generally calculate the dps based off of fraps or people taking note of when the fight started to when the boss died etc.

Do you start you're rotation instantly after the tank pulls or wait a little before starting?

Were you getting absorb attack? absorbing defense? using defense down debuff? even fully buffing multishots i have personally never seen a 300+ lightshot outside of a group BR i think my highest is around 280ish.

Were you running with 120 base str and 60 base dex? i generally sit at soft cap str and am doing less max than you even if i use my crab bow +2.

I still think a perfected lightshot focused rotation would beat the rotation you are using if done perfectly as it should be capable of doing 40+ dps if done perfectly with starting attacks instantly, but maybe fitting in fully buffed trifurcates may increase that number even more.

Originally Posted by Penguin

That is impressive as i didn't really expect that rotation to do 30+ dps but a few things i want to clarify 1st.

Any chance next time you can try to note down what time the fight started and what time it ended, also when did you start the parser? because currently the dps bar on it isn't accurate so we generally calculate the dps based off of fraps or people taking note of when the fight started to when the boss died etc.

Do you start you're rotation instantly after the tank pulls or wait a little before starting?

Were you getting absorb attack? absorbing defense? using defense down debuff? even fully buffing multishots i have personally never seen a 300+ lightshot outside of a group BR i think my highest is around 280ish.

Were you running with 120 base str and 60 base dex? i generally sit at soft cap str and am doing less max than you even if i use my crab bow +2.

I still think a perfected lightshot focused rotation would beat the rotation you are using if done perfectly as it should be capable of doing 40+ dps if done perfectly with starting attacks instantly, but maybe fitting in fully buffed trifurcates may increase that number even more.

I began the parse as the cutscene for the Ogre began (as the screen was fading black), I ended it as soon as the Ogre died. I'm pretty fast at alt tabbing.

The fight started at 53:15 it ended at 47:45 (give or take a few seconds I'm sorry I don't generally fraps as it lags me, but I take note of the time as I have to make sure we are still on our target for a speed run). Yes it was a slow fight, but we don't generally run that encounter like this. It was also our first successful speed run, or rather our first ever attempt at a speed run, with such an unorthodox setup.

I start my rotation instantly after the tank pulls (heavy shot goes on as soon as the tank touches it, then I start buffing a quelling/raging 3x light shot etc. as I said in my approximate outline). Waiting is for tanks that need a crutch, and when I tank for my tank on his archer he *&^%s with me too so screw his aggro safety net, he has accomplice and knows how to use it (and I have chameleon). I would be more cautious if we hadn't killed this guy a hundred times already, but there is nothing left to do but push the envelope now.

We had no major debuffs going because we only had 2 mages during that fight and they were busy healing the entire time. You don't use Blindside, and you don't use Cadence that would probably be why we have a difference in max damage (maybe they are not such "trash"). I get 300+ criticals on light shots constantly (though only when I hit an accurate blindside, the 320+ on Ogre outside of a BR is rare, but that I believe must have been a blindsided crit+rear maim).

What is your Minimum Damage? My understanding of the current stat calculation is that STR affects minimum damage, while attack affects maximum damage. I focus on attack mainly (149) because my style is centered around bursting, but for your style it is probably more important to raise your minimum damage. My minimum is only 47 (130 total STR).

Lodestone profile: http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...cicuid=1595680 (haven't changed my stats in a while I'm fairly happy with them).

Gear:
Crab Bow +2 (borrowed)
Silver Arrow
Peregrine Helm
Mythril Choker
4x Brass Rings
Brigands Acton
Mitts of the Lone Knight
Tarred Leather Trousers +2
Tarred Voyager's Belt +1
Bladedancer's Jackboots

food: Shephard's Pie

My playstyle is capable of 60+ DPS fairly easily I believe with BR's. Without BR's though I plan to take it higher than this, there are many things you can do to improve bursts further (as you hinted at initiation, getting invigorate II, more debuffs). My DD philosophy (for years now) revolves around lining up your entire group's big hits for one ultimate weakened opportunity and repeating this as often as possible.

The reason that I love my playstyle so much, and honestly (no offense intended, I understand its virtues and respect its results) hate yours (as I understand it) is because mine is something that my entire group can contribute to. I find rotational combat dull, for me I like to organize our linkshell's damage (and my pick up groups) in a more coordinated effort rather than everyone off doing their own thing (though for this one fight I indulged you in doing just that, and it was one of our hardest fought speed run wins ever, a lot of the credit for that goes to our healers and tank). In the end like in most MMO's the two styles are probably a wash, your way is obviously more than good enough, I just don't like playing that way.


Right now, I'd like to try and push BR to its limits before we lose it, because I genuinely enjoy the system even in its current state and so does a majority in our linkshell.

I plan after this or after 1.19 to experiment with alternatives to Battle Regimens in accomplishing the same general goal. I have ideas, ideas we have been playing around with since launch (everything right now is just practice for the real endgame).

I look forward to the job system, alliance content, enhanced party roles, and other combat changes in the future I believe will only strengthen my playstyle and hopefully one day make solo rotational combat in this game the failed tactic it ought to be. Though I find it to already be worse, it gets the job done and that is the failing of the current encounter balance (in my opinion).

I hope none of this offends you, you guys are as hardcore as it gets. I learned to tank Ogre on my Defender II-not-having Pugilist watching your little dubstep Deepvoid video (an admittedly sometimes painful experience for our linkshell). I've gone to BG for HNM strats since Zilart, but I have a different philosophy regarding MMO endgames than I see prevailing there.

I would venture a guess that what's making the difference on a per-Light Shot basis is Maim, not Blindside II. We use Cadence at the start, but not in the middle of the fight.

edit: Thanks for posting the parse, Murugan. With you posting up 41% of a party's damage in an ogre fight, what are the numbers of your other party members, and what classes are they? I also think the mouse-over breakdown with top 5 abilities and # of uses, min, max, avg, and proportion of total damage is more helpful than the pie chart, personally.

I think we can agree to disagree for now, since both approaches are resulting in >=33ish recorded DPS (real-world DPS is slightly higher, usually, even with fast alt-tabbing). I'm really curious to see what happens in 1.19, and I look forward to the resulting discussions.

Originally Posted by carraway

I would venture a guess that what's making the difference on a per-Light Shot basis is Maim, not Blindside II. We use Cadence at the start, but not in the middle of the fight.

Maim was only one set of light shots and was what gave me 328 instead of the 300-310 range I usually get. I hit 300+ on crits always when blindside lands. You said you get 280 highest and that is what I usually get if I am not positioned correctly and mess up my blindside, so it seems like the difference is blindside.

I use cadence on all my full bursts.