Summoner needs a quick fix too

[Sessurea]

stop with these stupid smn threads already? U are OK. It amazes me that there are more smn threads than drg threads, especially considering there are a lot more drgs than smns.

U guys have excellent 1v1 dps. The best dps against 2-4 mobs that aren't irrelevant and die in 1 second flat. A pet to help soak damage ( thermionic beam ) , the ability to res a party member, sure it's dps loss to do so, but it can and does prevent wipes.

Really, just stop.

Why compare to bard or BLM? Brd + smn = amazing. brd+smn+blm = super efficient usage of foe+ battlevoice. The only advantage blm has over smn is the aoe burst, u really confuse me there. Do you get jelly when u see BLMs flare mobs in loldungeons? Coz nobody cares about that...

My dream party setup would be brd,blm,smn,drg.

[Eardstapa]

Consider a new profession, now.

Unfortunately Akiza has the forum troll job perfected... Either way, as I said, we cannot jump to conclusions without seeing how they perform with better gear. Secondaries are not as vital as the main stat anyway... DPS loss this, DPS loss that... The only loss is not playing perfectly and not having your main stat capped.

[Havenchild]

Unfortunately Akiza has the forum troll job perfected... Either way, as I said, we cannot jump to conclusions without seeing how they perform with better gear. Secondaries are not as vital as the main stat anyway... DPS loss this, DPS loss that... The only loss is not playing perfectly and not having your main stat capped.

This mentality has lead many people to doing crappy damage on SMN.

No Spell Speed does not lower your DPS on SMN, it just does not provide quite the DPS increase to SMN as it does to BLM. However what does actually lower DPS is having to use Energy Drain more and Ruin II less, to avoid flooring your MP. .

Swapping out DET for SS, or forcing a SMN to choose between having ACC or DET, more so in this tome gearset is a HUGE loss of damage to the class. You have no idea how much DET adds to SMN. SS in general is not a good stat to have on this class for besides the fact you hit the floor harder on an already MP intensive class, it adds essentially nothing to the class that translates into better numbers.

[Eardstapa]

That mentality has lead to crappy DPS? No. Hardly. After doing massive and extensive testing with my Monk, the damage differences are literally 1-3 DPS at most, and based on RNG. And if secondaries mattered so much, people would use nothing but i110 crafted for the best DPS they can push out... And the DPS loss from having a lower main stat is much worse than having 'sub par' secondaries.

[Havenchild]

That mentality has lead to crappy DPS? No. Hardly. After doing massive and extensive testing with my Monk, the damage differences are literally 1-3 DPS at most, and based on RNG.

On your Monk. SMN is not your Monk. Your main stat is more important on other classes PARTICULARLY MNK, DRG, BLM.

SMN is a different ball game and DET has a huge effect on the damage. In general, most of the "upgrades" in this gear season, are all actually nerfs to SMNs sans for probably 2-3 gears which are essentially direct upgrades with similar stats from previous available gear. It's truly a case of how can you progress while not killing your damage.

[Eardstapa]

No, it really does not. The testing I did showed me that the damage difference between 270 det and 343 was literally 5-8 points off the minimum and maximum, and everyone claims Det is the end all be all for MNK due to auto attacks and the reduced delay between them. And that is merely BECAUSE DET is weighed in at 5.6-6 points of Det is equal to 1 STR, MND, INT or DEX. Main stats far outweigh secondaries.

[Havenchild]

No, it really does not. The testing I did showed me that the damage difference between 270 det and 343 was literally 5-8 points off the minimum and maximum, and everyone claims Det is the end all be all for MNK due to auto attacks and the reduced delay between them. And that is merely BECAUSE DET is weighed in at 5.6-6 points of Det is equal to 1 STR, MND, INT or DEX. Main stats far outweigh secondaries.

Once again, not the same thing on SMN. Why do you think so many SMNs hate the current gear set? Because the class depends quite heavily on it's secondary stat spread (Crit/Det) whereas other classes tend to focus more on their main stat as the fore bearer of their damage. If it was as simple as max int, get good damage on SMN, no single SMN would complain about the gear set at all. What works for BLMs / MNKs /DRGs, does not translate to the same thing for SMNs.

[Eardstapa]

Again, you ignored my point I made, if secondaries are all you care for, just use crafted i110 and i90. See how you do against a SMN with full i130 in a few months... Now let us stop derailing this thread and agree to disagree, shall we?

[Havenchild]

snip

Kinda arguing semantics now. If you honestly feel that sacrificing heavy amounts of your main stat can ever be overcome by simple DET, then you would be pretty oblivious. Or in your case, your either sacrificed a lot of Crit or STR to gain that DET bonus so your parser didn't accurately reflect perhaps cause you weren't critting as often? I sure hope you were about 515 or so on Monk in i110 cause that's where all the good monks who gear correctly were. Your main stat matters, but how much of a secondary especially DET for summoners you can gain per main stat of INT is a big determining factor of what you do gear wise, which you fail to understand.

Where do you think people who have downed T13 and such already with ONLY i110 and i90 accesories, getting all there damage from to conquer the DPS checks? I'll give you a hint, it wasn't from STR since they couldn't meld that in. Secondary stats matter more then most people give credit to especially on this forum. But this generally separates the good players from the bad ones.

But since we've determined you know very little how summoners work, how about we agree to disagree, shall we?

[Eardstapa]

Well now you just took it a step too far. I know just how well secondaries work, but remember, we are on the 14 forums, so it is rare to see someone whom actually cares about secondaries... Considering everyone else shoots them down. Especially critical.