Will player level be > ilvl?

[Teryaani]

you wont need to run a single instance, to get to 60...
and really, you think expansion dungeon bosses will have 1mil+ hp, and do 5k+ dam?

No, but I don't think it's unfair of SE to expect that we will. Especially if you're doing the main storyline.

As for the damage, we have dungeon bosses now with IK mechanics, so yeah, I do expect it.

[Delily]

you wont need to run a single instance, to get to 60...
and really, you think expansion dungeon bosses will have 1mil+ hp, and do 5k+ dam?

Did I miss something in the information about Heavensward? Why would they change the leveling mechanic for a simple level increase? Just because Coil is the current endgame doesn't mean it's going to stay that way.

[Radacci]

No, but I don't think it's unfair of SE to expect that we will. Especially if you're doing the main storyline.

As for the damage, we have dungeon bosses now with IK mechanics, so yeah, I do expect it.

it won't really matter what lv/ilv the new dungeons are, you can do story quests, and current dungeons, to get to 60.
they aren't going to enforce ilv 150, to get to lv 60.
expansion dungeons will start, where 2.5 dungeons end, which will be around 110.
if you got ilv 130, when expansion comes, you'll breeze your way to lv60. It's going to be as easy as doing current story quests, and expert dungeons.
I wouldn't mind it if lv60 content starts at ilv 200, and you'll need several tiers, to gear up for raids, but that's not gonna happen. It would just be way to harsh for new players.

[Delily]

it won't really matter what lv/ilv the new dungeons are, you can do story quests, and current dungeons, to get to 60.
they aren't going to enforce ilv 150, to get to lv 60.
expansion dungeons will start, where 2.5 dungeons end, which will be around 110.
if you got ilv 130, when expansion comes, you'll breeze your way to lv60. It's going to be as easy as doing current story quests, and expert dungeon
I wouldn't mind it if lv60 content starts at ilv 200, and you'll need several tiers, to gear up for raids, but that's not gonna happen. It would just be way to harsh for new players.

Your claim is that effectively, levels 51 to 60 will go from 80 to 130. Why do you insist Coil gear will be the entrance level raiding gear for Heavensward? That is not how expansions generally work. You're not going to have to raid coil to raid on Heavansward

[Teryaani]

Pop an aspirin, this is going to be a bit long.

it won't really matter what lv/ilv the new dungeons are, you can do story quests, and current dungeons, to get to 60.

Let's take a step back to your argument. Your premise, as I understand it, is that the gear coming from the quests is going to be in the 50s and it's ridiculous that the gear rewards in heavensward will be higher to start. People around are saying you're wrong, and citing reasons. I'll go over the most important of those reasons:

Story Catchup - You say that you can do the story quests to level. That's true, but there are points in the story quests where having an average ilvl of 60 isn't going to cut it. The four storymode primals you face at 50 all need, as a reasonable guess, a minimum ilvl of 70 to not get crushed by mechanics. The dungeon that's required to progress, Snowcloak, requires an ilvl of 80 to go forward.

This isn't a new dungeon. We haven't even started talking about new dungeons. Snowcloak is 2.4 dungeon, required for the main storyline, and it requires i80 minimum.

For SE to get us to the level 51 story quests we have to have completed that quest that requires i80. By your gear estimation, you'll be in the mid 50s before even touching snowcloak. That's not going to fly with the player base.

they aren't going to enforce ilv 150, to get to lv 60.

Who said anything about enforcing anything? If you want to camp in Northern Thanalan and do fates and leves until 60, be my guest. They are going to require that you get better gear to progress in the story quests though. I will guarantee that at least one of the mid level dungeons is going to be in the story mode. It will have a gear requirement, and you will have to meet it.

expansion dungeons will start, where 2.5 dungeons end, which will be around 110.

Could be. But this doesn't help your argument. If the gear drops in a level 52 dungeon are the same as what drops in SCOB, then the content around that level will be tuned for that gear, not lower.

if you got ilv 130, when expansion comes, you'll breeze your way to lv60. It's going to be as easy as doing current story quests, and expert dungeons.

You are going to be very disappointed. This is a vertical progression game. SE is going to continue to progress ilvl in the expansion, not just leave it where it was.

I wouldn't mind it if lv60 content starts at ilv 200, and you'll need several tiers, to gear up for raids, but that's not gonna happen. It would just be way to harsh for new players.

You can take a fresh 50 to ilvl 100 in the span of two weeks in the current content. SE has gear catchup mechanisms and those will be in place for 3.0. It won't be hard on new players at all.

[Lothar808]

Here are my thoughts (If they do not rework item levels on all items):

- We will not get another item level increase until 3.0
- First Raid gear and locked tomb gear in 3.0 will be ilvl 140-150 (raid weapons at ilvl 155) this follows the same +20 ilvl increase every two major patches
- All gear above ilvl 135, will require character lvl 60
- I don't think breaking the lvl 50 cap will be gated behind the 3.0 main story quests, most likely it will be gated behind you having bought the expansion
- EXP gains will be added to all story mode quests post 2.0 main story release (this means by the time you get to Snowcloak you might be lvl 51-54, or more, if you have purchased the expansion)
- Any new gear you get from Job quests will be character level capped at lvl 55 or 60 (new AF gear). ilvl of this gear will probably be around ilvl 130-140, which would be entry level for the new raid environment, this also allow for new players to begin the catch up game

Just my thoughts, if the ilvl system is reworked then who knows what will happen.

I do not follow the train of thought that thinks 3.0 content (besides the raid replacing COB) will be harder and require higher than ilvl 130+ to complete.

[Teryaani]

First off, I'm about out of posts. That's why I'm not responding to this further...well, until tomorrow.

I understand. People used to horizontal progression are bothered by the ilvl inflation of vertical progression games. But ye best start believing in vertical progression MMOs, you're playing one.

Here are my thoughts (If they do not rework item levels on all items):

I keep seeing this reworking thing mentioned. The amount of development effort to rework and rebalance item levels would be herculean and would mean less actual content.

Ask yourself a basic question. What is more likely, the developers continue on the current track and just increase item levels of new gear, or take that time away from designing quests, dungeons, raids, races, and classes to fulfil a wish that a small minority of the players are asking for?

- We will not get another item level increase until 3.0

Edit: Dang reading comprehension. My bad. You're right. We won't. They'll ungate the i130 buffers by adding them to the last CT (along with 120 gear). New gear will be in 3.0.

I don't think breaking the lvl 50 cap will be gated behind the 3.0 main story quests, most likely it will be gated behind you having bought the expansion

Nobody suggested that it would. In fact, I pointed out that you could probably level to 60 and never go anywhere near the MSQ.

But certainly some of the new main story quests are going to be gated behind dungeons which will be gated behind gear.

EXP gains will be added to all story mode quests post 2.0 main story release (this means by the time you get to Snowcloak you might be lvl 51-54, or more, if you have purchased the expansion)

Or you can have quest gear and dungeon greens get you there by no later than 51 and allow the player to get into the MSQ at the appropriate level. It would be way less frustrating to the players to do that. I do think they will be adding exp to the 50 quests.

- Any new gear you get from Job quests will be character level capped at lvl 55 or 60 (new AF gear). ilvl of this gear will probably be around ilvl 130-140, which would be entry level for the new raid environment, this also allow for new players to begin the catch up game

Whoah there. If they follow the same model they used in 2.0, AF2 (AF3? Is myth gear counted as AF2?) gear is the gateway to dungeons, which are the gateway to the casual raid, which is the gateway to the endgame raid. Or would have been in they hadn't had CT's release messed up.

Just my thoughts, if the ilvl system is reworked then who knows what will happen.

As a player, I would be completely pissed if the developers put effort into such a frivilous task when players are clamouring for content.

I do not follow the train of thought that thinks 3.0 content (besides the raid replacing COB) will be harder and require higher than ilvl 130+ to complete.

Given the progression of the last 4 patches, I'm mystified by this line of thinking. Edit to explain: Part of progression in a vertical mmo is a gear improvement. The notion that we could sail through the patch and upgrade nothing would cause a lot of players, myself included, to be annoyed. That need was answered by square in every single patch in 2.0. The catch up patches were for filling in and gearing alts, and the main patches for your main. I don't want to spend months staring at the same gear set.

[Radacci]

Your claim is that effectively, levels 51 to 60 will go from 80 to 130. Why do you insist Coil gear will be the entrance level raiding gear for Heavensward? That is not how expansions generally work. You're not going to have to raid coil to raid on Heavansward

I think you're misunderstanding me. I was saying that lv 51-60 will NOT be 80-130.
And i didnt say you need to raid coil, to do heavensward raids. I said that if you DID raid coil, and have ilv 130, then you'll get through expansion story, easily, and probably can start raiding right away. It was other ppl that said you'll probably need ilv 150+ by the time you're lv 55, which is what i'm saying, it will NOT be.

snip

actually, you're right. I was considering the story from post-praetorium, and forgot that all the other story quests, after, are part of the main story as well
eh ok, so 2.5 may introduce new expert dungeons, that are ilv 100, and you go through there, for story. expansion story will have ilv 110-120 dungeons...so my point still remains, if you got ilv 130, when expansion comes out, you'll breeze through the story, to 60. then the lv 60 content starts off with ilv 120-150.
Well, they did say expansion would have as much content as launch had, but i highly doubt they are gonna throw in ilv 100-150+ just between lv 51-60 (that would mean you'd need to get a new tier of gear, every 2lv) Most of the content is probably going to be for lv60, with a few high lv dungeons for 51-60. But yah, i doubt that the expansion story is going to exceed what you can accomplish, with FCoB/poetics gear.
I'm not saying that the ilv will stay the same, just that it will continue, where it currently is/will be in 2.5. They increase in 10lv increments, so since Snowcloak is 90, then 2,5 will probably have some ilv100 dungeons. and then expansion will continue at 110.
end game jumps 20ilv, so from 130->150. Expansion will probably have some lv60 dungeon, that drops ilv130 stuff as well, so you got the option of that, poetics, final coil; then new tome stuff at 140, for ilv150 raid. Then in 3.2, they'll add some ilv 170 raid, and so on.

As a player, I would be completely pissed if the developers put effort into such a frivilous task when players are clamouring for content.

there's different teams working on different things. it's not the same teams that program/tweak, and develop actual content. so one doesn't interfere with the other.

Given the progression of the last 4 patches, I'm mystified by this line of thinking.

non-raid content, is currently at ilv90.
for 2,5, it will be 100, so expansion-non-raid-content, will start at 110.
while raid content will go from 130/135->150/155.

[Felis]

I think level 51 crafted gear start with ilevel 100 (no star or 1 star), first dungeon gear would be level 53 / ilevel120, and first raid gear level 60 / ilevel 180

I don't think that we get ilevel 135+ gear from the first dungeon after level 50.

[Teryaani]

Ha! still have one left. Stupid post limit.

non-raid content, is currently at ilv90.
for 2,5, it will be 100, so expansion-non-raid-content, will start at 110.
while raid content will go from 130/135->150/155.

That sounds about right for the start for the dungeons. I still don't think the current raid gear will keep you through the entirety of the patch. I'm betting the dungeons around 55 will be where the gear starts switching. Unfortunately we don't have precedent for what SE is going to do.

there's different teams working on different things. it's not the same teams that program/tweak, and develop actual content. so one doesn't interfere with the other.

It requires regression testing for the other parts of the game's content, so it would be a pretty massive, application-wide, change. That's why I can't see it happening.