Could have SE unknowing set FFXIV to fail....

[Rocco]

This will always be a problem in theme park mmo's that follow a 'trinity'

When your game revolves around raiding and gear stats of course there will be optimal rotations and classes people want. FFXI was a different breed because it didn't follow the same old song and dance most games have been following since the release of WoW, which is what made FFXI such an amazing and unique MMO.

[Leigaon]

I'm one of those rare ones who really really enjoyed the support roles. I loved bard very much..but it looks like in this game each job has the ability to break their mold even if it's very minor in some way.

I do feel if they do not want to put in a dedicated support role then they need to boost the support abilities for certain jobs to make them stand out, but you can't make one so powerful that it is a requirement for the fight. Then again if they add a support role job like bard from 11 in there with minor DPS but enough pt boost to be useful..I'll put down my SMN book and my nightlight egi's in a heartbeat.

[XNihili]

This will always be a problem in theme park mmo's that follow a 'trinity'

When your game revolves around raiding and gear stats of course there will be optimal rotations and classes people want. FFXI was a different breed because it didn't follow the same old song and dance most games have been following since the release of WoW, which is what made FFXI such an amazing and unique MMO.

There was not a trinity in FFXI but a quadrality with Tank/Healer/DPS/support and it's not better, only worse because instead of the 2 choke point (tank and healer) you had 3 choke point (tank, healer and support).
The only thing that people could try to be innovative with is how people would assume the role like for example the tank : could be the DRK/NIN, the PLD/NIN, the RDM/NIN, the BRD/NIN or ... the NIN. And that's only for the best raid team, normal ones just copy the best teams strategies.
If you try to tank as a RDM/WAR in an XP party, people will laugh at you.
Though in merit party the tank has been removed because the mobs die too fast.

[Lord_Zlatan]

and there are even more viable options than that. I think what most of the player base is asking for is even a fraction of what we were able to do "outside the box" in FFXI

[Yukiko]

Well... FFXIV isnt a D&D game... thats for certain!
What do you expect?

[Sylve]

This guy gets it.

But ... What you describe (and from a brief visit to youtube) LOTRO had the Tank/Heal/DPS Trinity that every other MMO has. On that Raid boss, there was someone holding the attentions of said boss while someone else healed him. That .. Thats the Holy Trinity.
You may be thinking of something else, like classes having multiple Roles (Like WoW, example the Druid. Depending on spec and gear it could Tank/Heal/Magic DPS/Melee DPS)

We don't have that. But i think it works better than the multi role system, as with a multi role system, half to a third of a class' skills cannot be utilized for the chosen Role.

[XNihili]

and there are even more viable options than that. I think what most of the player base is asking for is even a fraction of what we were able to do "outside the box" in FFXI

There's not real need of "outside of the box" thinking in the way the game is played.
And if you want to specialize your job into healer/tank/dps as the need arise it will :
- confuse the Duty/Party Finder with PLD and WAR DPS unless a massive change.
- it will change nothing as people playing DPS won't play tank even if their job can specialize in tanking.
- you'll need to lot any and every equipments in the off chance that you may need to change role.
And to be honest, the "outside of the box" thinking is mostly laughed at in FFXI unless you manage some great achievement (and SE doesn't decide to nerf it like the BRD/NIN). Who remember the infamous WHM/THF ?

[Massterchef]

Stuff

stuff[/I]

The only difference between lotro and FF meta was that they had a support class with healing capabilities in captain. It had the exact same trinity that exists in XIV Tank/Healer/DPS. Endgame raids at the time like ToO/erebor required pure tanks/healers before they completely broke the system with HD and stopped producing any new raids...not to mention LoTRO is in heavy decline. But going back to XIV, dungeons like AK have been completed with 4 DPS at 2.0, and I'm sure if people were willing to put in the time current dungeons could also be completed without pure tank/healer. However similar to LoTRO without pure role classes, time spent completing a dungeon will take longer.

[Lord_Zlatan]

stuff

Read my post about LOTRO and I said the exact same thing as you, and its the same in all games... in middle/intermediate content all of these outside the box things work... try it in a true endgame situation and they will rarely work.

As an aside, Captain was different in that the 3 specs truly did different things... it had a healer shell but buffed different things in different specs.

On topic... Ive done WP as a WAR w/ 3 BLMs. Ive tanked Low Level dungeons on WHM and BLM (purposely). I've DPSd as a PLD. I've DPSd as a WHM. Ive tanked as a DRG. All on purpose, all with a game plan in mind. I would never dream of doing any of those things at all endgame.

FFXI permitted things like that to happen end game. There was a boss(es?) that were much easier with a BRD tank... the game allowed it to be so. Id like a fraction of that present in FFXIV at the end game level.

[Lux_Rayna]

Misinformation? You yourself just ignored what they wrote. This is why I have a good feeling you don't do end-game, because it's become common knowledge FCs are excluding DRGs for the higher coils, especially the final 2.

Its not common knowledge, just blind speculation by a small % of the playerbase with no basis in reality. The fact is no job is excluded at endgame. I've personally never seen a good DRG be excluded from a group. Maybe a PUG, but a PUG hardly counts. No FC worth its salt excludes jobs. They only care about skills.