Summoner and MP

[Sunako]

BLM lose lot more dps than smn if you need move lot in the fight. I think it is fair trade from summoners mana management. You just need plan the fight and use energy drain in the phases where dps is not so important.

[Sessurea]

BLM lose lot more dps than smn if you need move lot in the fight. I think it is fair trade from summoners mana management. You just need plan the fight and use energy drain in the phases where dps is not so important.

Sounds about right to me.

[Sanguisio]

Do we really lose to BLMs, providing the BLM hasnt out Ilvled me horrible my dps with pets clears theirs no problem.

[Shneibel]

Do we really lose to BLMs, providing the BLM hasnt out Ilvled me horrible my dps with pets clears theirs no problem.

in a station fight, yes SMN will lose DPS to a BLM

[Judge_Xero]

I did put PIE on my Relic. On Novus it caps at 23 (~170 MP). Lost about 10 each of Det/Crit. So maybe 1.25% damage overall.

It's not enough extra MP if you don't pace yourself or have to Raise a couple times. But it helps a little.

SMN has enough MP if used efficiently.

Was actually just about to make a thread about this, I'm oom by the end of first adds in T10.

Really curious how this is even possible, and/or required to hit DPS checks for T10.

[Zantusken]

Was slightly exaggerated now that I reread that, but my point still stands. I have to start using energy drain during the first add phase or I'll be out of MP. Maybe not "required" to hit the DPS check, but I really shouldn't need to lower my DPS in order to make up for summoner's poor sustainability. Yes, melee and tanks can have TP issues as well, but it isn't anywhere as bad, not to mention goad and paeon taking priority over ballad.

[Judge_Xero]

Was slightly exaggerated now that I reread that, but my point still stands. I have to start using energy drain during the first add phase or I'll be out of MP. Maybe not "required" to hit the DPS check, but I really shouldn't need to lower my DPS in order to make up for summoner's poor sustainability. Yes, melee and tanks can have TP issues as well, but it isn't anywhere as bad, not to mention goad and paeon taking priority over ballad.

Still confused. I'm usually around 450 DPS for the first add phase and I have at least 2k MP if not more by the time they're dead. Only way I could see burning that much MP is if you are on bait duty for the tail swipes for the other tank (Ruin II spam), but that should be a bard and doesn't represent SMN MP conservation.

In between adds you can usually sustain your MP by not using Miasma II except if RS is up, and not using Ruin II. You can always make up time at the end of the fight by burning more MP on AA/Ruin II spam, M2+Contagion outside of RS.

If SMN could replenish more MP I'd think it's single target DPS would get out of balance with other classes.

[Zantusken]

I'd really like to know what you're doing(don't misread that, I am legitimately curious) to not have MP issues. You're the first summoner I've come across who doesn't. I use a Ruin 2 before any off-GCD(rouse,spur,fester,aetherflow, ect) which is where a lot of my MP goes, and I could easily not do that. That is a huge DPS loss over the course of a fight though, so I end up in the same position. And yes, I do bait the tail swipes for the OT's adds but that doesn't really have much effect on my MP.

[Judge_Xero]

I'd really like to know what you're doing(don't misread that, I am legitimately curious) to not have MP issues. You're the first summoner I've come across who doesn't. I use a Ruin 2 before any off-GCD(rouse,spur,fester,aetherflow, ect) which is where a lot of my MP goes, and I could easily not do that. That is a huge DPS loss over the course of a fight though, so I end up in the same position. And yes, I do bait the tail swipes for the OT's adds but that doesn't really have much effect on my MP.

I'll see if I can help.

- Typical SMN opener on Boss + Sprint to get the Miasma II off without any down time. (Rouse/Spur/Enkindle so Enkindle will be up on the second set of adds)

- I usually Ruin II to get a Fester off without any GCD downtime, but in this case I don't. Mainly because I want to conserve MP for when I need to use R2, i.e. moving in for Charge, Tethers. Because of that and the tempo of the fight I time my Festers with the re-application of Bio (2 per Aether Flow), or take the small DPS loss of using Fester after a GCD.

- Adds, Shadow Flare in area of 1st set to kill during Electrocharge. DOTS + Bane (should have 1 aether left) - Aerial Slash
Then I move to the other set of adds, DOT, M2, Contagion the Sister, Bane and I leave Garuda on that sister (Aether Flow will be back just after Dotting). Then move back to the 1st sister/brother. You should get a single Fester off on the sister while dots are up, then I move to the brother and reverse Dot (Bio, M, B2)
Then I go back to the 2nd Set Sister, SC Shadow Flare and Ruin spam until the Dots need to be reapplied, then Bane them to the brother and start attacking the brother.

- Shadow Flare, DOTs, Bane, Rouse, Spur, Enkindle on the first set to attack then LB
- DoT and Bane the 2nd Set
- DoT + M2 the 3rd set + Contagion the Sister - Bane - Leave Garuda on the Sister (Aerial Slash etc). SC Shadow Flare

adds all die

Then just burn the boss down in the last phase, using whatever you have left. Even if you have 200 MP at the end you can still cast stuff

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I think a lot of SMN just blow their Aetherflow on Festers instead of saving them to Bane more. For fights with many mobs that will live through multiple sets of DoTs it's better to just toss your dots on them and Bane. Bane is much stronger than Fester even with only two mobs and is a key skill for MP conservation.

Doing a Second Bane VS using Fester (2 Mobs)

Fester 300 Potency - 0MP Saved
Bane - Spreads ~800 Potency worth of DoT Damage - 401 MP Saved (Savings compared to if you had to cast the DoTs a second time)

So a difference of +740 Potency with a savings of 132 MP, (providing you cast Ruin three times VS having to recast your DoTS on the 2nd Mob) by not using Fester and using Bane to reapply DoTs on extra mobs where applicable.

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MP Conservation is the only mechanic that SMN seems to be effected by, compared to what other classes have to go through. That's only on a few fights as well. I don't think it would be fair to other classes to change that.

[Akiza]

I'll see if I can help.

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MP Conservation is the only mechanic that SMN seems to be effected by, compared to what other classes have to go through. That's only on a few fights as well. I don't think it would be fair to other classes to change that.

Summoner's don't have a reliable burst and they don't proc like other dps classes so it's unfair for them to be affected by a mechanic that is so debilitating like poor MP Conservation.