Extend Classes into full Jobs?

[Isala]

I've actually been messing around with classes, now that I'm out of the Job only 90s gear. It seems like the better our gear gets, the less that measly amount of points from the Soulstone even matters.

Conjurer especially, is an interesting beast. In current gear, I lose about 75 HP per Cure. I also lose the healing CDs, Regen, and Holy. What I gain in exchange doesn't actually help my healing that much. Inner Release, and that's about it. And Mantra, but that's a nerfed Divine Seal, really. I even lose the OMG AOE that is Holy spam.

HOWEVER. When it comes to single target burst phases, the CNJ blows WHM away. Having BFB, RS and IR allows me to hit a lot harder than the WHM can. On average, my WHM crits for 700 on a Stone II. And that's all I will ever crit for, as I have no DPS CDs to do anything but 700. CNJ can crit for 1100+, and even non crits are still significantly higher under CDs. Even without CDs up, it's still a minimal damage loss, maybe 50 or so.

The rest of the classes have similar outcomes. Loss of role specific abilities, and a slight nerf to overall performance for their role, but increased out-of-role performance.

Frankly, if we got rid of the stat boost on the Soulstone, or merged that boost into the actual class, there might be a shift to using classes as well. Replacing your few Job skills with 5 more crossclass CDs might actually be a gain in performance for some classes.

Or, like others have already stated, if we got class specific abilities like Jobs get theirs. Instead of halting at 30 to become the job, why not continue out the class line until 50 as well?

Of course there is a large counterargument for this. This is Final Fantasy, after all. Since FFI, we have always started off as a lower class, and eventually earned our higher Job. White Mage to White Wizard, for instance. So this is actually a natural progression. Allowing us to still have access to the initial class however, is a curiosity.

[dday3six]

What if they put the first job quest to level 15? Doing this jobs would be more like a specialization of the classes and could add a new skill sets or traits depending on the soul crystal you have equipped. More or less WoW or other games spec system

How would cross-class work then? Would every skill after 15 be a job skill, or would skills continue to be split between class and job? Provoke, Invigorate, Mercy Stroke, Blood for Blood, Stoneskin, Eye for an Eye, and Mantra are after level 15.

[Noelzzz]

How would cross-class work then? Would every skill after 15 be a job skill, or would skills continue to be split between class and job? Provoke, Invigorate, Mercy Stroke, Blood for Blood, Stoneskin, Eye for an Eye, and Mantra are after level 15.

Yes jobs skill instead of class and you will have different traits too. Doing this jobs that split from the same class will have different skill set and traits keeping the skills you learn in the first 15 levels the same.
Isala, i totally agree with you, if they do not rework this class job system at least some class deserve to be played in end game

[Hayden]

Personally I loved the IDEA of Classes being versatile, it felt as if you could be unique and have your own build. Everyone had a different idea of what the best cross class abilities to take was, and everyone seemed to make their set up work.

Job's seemed to be the go to thing for end game content and party based content. As of right now however, it really feel's like classes are only still around because it would be too sloppy to do away with them altogether.

I'd love to see Classes have some sort of functional use again, because I love the IDEA of being a Rogue, or an Arcanist, or a Pugulist.

Personally, with Dark Knight being released as a stand alone, I feel as if they are trying seperate themselves from the Class system, or at least trying it out to see how players will take it.

[ScoTheHunter]

The Class/job system is a great idea HOWEVER it was implemented counter-productively to it's goals. A "Class" should be "What you are" and a "Job" should be "How I play". Jobs should not be required, or even desired, outside of dungeons/raids/trails/etc. A Job should not be an evolution of the class as much as it should be a learned set of skills aimed toward increasing one's efficiency in a set role. If a class was made to be a stand alone entity designed around doing Quests, Story, Leves, etc. while solo (much how GW2 has classes designed) then you can have jobs for each class that branch off into niches such as Tank, DPS, Support, Healer that each sacrifice the balanced state of the class to focus on an extreme. By doing this each "class" can now fulfill each role (or "job") in a different manor suited to that class' style. But none of this matters because it would require a complete overhaul of existing class mechanics/skills and no developer would ever be willing to do that.

[dday3six]

Yes jobs skill instead of class and you will have different traits too. Doing this jobs that split from the same class will have different skill set and traits keeping the skills you learn in the first 15 levels the same.

So how would skills which are basically required: Provoke, Invigorate, and Swiftcast (which I forgot to mention before) work? All are needed to help other jobs perform optimally. Would it make sense to have certain skills open to other jobs, even if they are specialized job skills now under a system were every post level 15 skill is a job skill.

The current system deals with this issue by having some skills be class skills, and other be more specialized job skills. If certain skills are needed by each job, and a job took over at level 15, and all skill thus forth were job skills, then certain skill are going to have to be basically renames with the same function. That limits a jobs defining skills, and defeats the purpose.

[Akiza]

SE should've had Jobs unlocked at level 10 so their more specialized like WoW or any other MMO

[Bishop81]

Frankly, if we got rid of the stat boost on the Soulstone
...
Replacing your few Job skills with 5 more crossclass CDs might actually be a gain in performance for some classes.

IMHO many Jobs are pretty much "carried" by the stat boost and the lack of the stat boost is what makes many/all Classes "non-viable".

I think SE wants to move away from cross-Class skills. The more choices in cross-class skills, the more variation in player "builds", the harder it is to balance. The fact that cross-Class skills are shared by many Classes/Jobs, makes any kind of alteration to them difficult, as changing one cross-Class skill will impact multiple Classes/Jobs, further increasing the difficulty of balancing.

It depends on how hard up SE is for Class/Job balance. It's a fine line to walk. When balance becomes an all consuming pursuit (at the expense of everything else), like in WoW, it can be detrimental to the game as a whole.

[OnePipOrchestra]

So, just asking this now before I accidentally ruin a lot of progress...
When you "evolve" your class, for example from Rogue to the job Ninja, I know you can still use your rogue skills, but if you evolve from level 30, do you still learn new rogue skills or will you forever live with only learning ninja skills and missing a lot of good abilities?

[Brianmj]

So, just asking this now before I accidentally ruin a lot of progress...
When you "evolve" your class, for example from Rogue to the job Ninja, I know you can still use your rogue skills, but if you evolve from level 30, do you still learn new rogue skills or will you forever live with only learning ninja skills and missing a lot of good abilities?

You learn new Rogue skills up to level 50. In addition to that you do quests for Ninja skills. Even when you're set as Ninja you still level the base Rogue class underneath. The game will say "You earn 2400 Rogue experience points" or something like that.