SO Shiva..

[Morningstar1337]

We know dragons can shapeshift into humans, as seen in the Coerthas section of the main story. But there are also smaller dragons she could have slept with, like a smaller wyvern, or the aevis type enemies.
Besides that, we don't even know if it's completely true. Remember that they're taking the history of Shiva from her archenemy.

Indeed History is written by the winners.

This has me wondering if we'll find out more about Shiva soon enough.

[myahele]

You know I really wouldn't be too surprised if the union between dragon (midgardsomar) produced a child, maybe even a hybrid race that yugiri may be descended on.

That way there can still be 5 races since one is offshoot of another.

I have a theory that the offspring of Shive is being held by ishgard and that her lover was actually Midgardsomar. At the very least the key to reviving Midgardsomar might be in Ishgard.

[WellFooled]

I don't think we should take the legend of Saint Shiva so literally. The account of her lying with a dragon could well just be a metaphor for collaborating with them.

[Viridiana]

I don't think we should take the legend of Saint Shiva so literally. The account of her lying with a dragon could well just be a metaphor for collaborating with them.

Or even just straight propaganda or mythologizing.

[Crystallis91]

Gee you actually believe that honestly? None of us even know what "Laying with a dragon" actually means it could anything all we have is speculation which does not really help with lore what we need is real answers some hints or confirmations before we make assumptions of meanings.

[Kotemon]

So nobody remembers Odzmanouk or Areuhat from XI or the majority of Greek and Roman mythology, in detail? I understood it as a one sided tale that provides justification to pronounce her a heretic. If it started as a metaphor that became a literal fact over time, who knows. As for the Shiva summoning it looked more like Iceheart was Shiva or very least an avatar being used by Shiva. My impression was the crystals was probably going to be used for something else given her dialog during and after the fight. Therefore everything about Shiva now is just based on one specific point of view. She could have been used as an explanation to why some heretics can change into dragons, or had originally been part of whatever lore was/is connected to Silvertear lake.


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"Secrets and Lies, Secrets and Lies, that _____ is naught more than a miserable pile of Secrets and Lies!" ---Gigi (sort of)

[lilirulu]

Nobody said that there was the possibility of offspring. Just because she got freaky with a dragon (according to myth, anyway) doesn't mean it was a fertile pairing.

The enemies in SV and SC that transform into dragons are what make me assume that there was some sort of offspring from her union with dragons. The move is called 'Dragon's Blood' after all and is definitely something more then simple glamor used by other enemies which is relatively easily dispelled if you know what to look for.

And while the possibility of Shiva's myth being false. The dialogue in the game goes out of it's way to say that the one fact about her that is for certain that even her followers believe is that she "lay down with a dragon" and her followers even go so far to refer to it as a "blessed union". So, that does lend a lot of credence from a story perspective that this is the one fact that writers did want you to know that Shiva got busy with a dragon. Also, the statues in Shiva's arena also feel like something you'd do for a romantic union versus just two beings that formed an alliance.

(post limit is annoying)

[Viridiana]

Gee you actually believe that honestly? None of us even know what "Laying with a dragon" actually means

Err. . .no. The phrase "lie with a dragon" has a rather clear meaning. I mean, there's a tiny, tiny chance that it really does just mean that she lay down next to a dragon, but that usage would be phrased differently to avoid just such a confusion. To say that one person lay with another is to say that they had sex, and this is reflected in the reactions of the NPCs to the idea. None of them want to come right out and say it, but you can tell they're trying not to dwell too long on just how a human (or Elezen, I guess) woman manages to have intercourse with a dragon.

She lay down with a dragon--the gravest of all sins, according to the Ishgardian faith. Yet in the eyes of Iceheart's followers, this was a holy act--the blessed union of man and dragon. How such a thing could even be possible is quite another question.

The enemies in SV and SC that transform into dragons are what make me assume that there was some sort of offspring from her union with dragons.

Hmm. . .not quite sure what to make of the transformation. I can see your side, but had you asked me before this patch what I thought of it, I would have said that I thought it was just powerful magic granted to devote believers. It could well be in the same line as how the voidsent in Haukke hard manage to turn normal Wood Wailers into more voidsent.

The dialogue in the game goes out of it's way to say that the one fact about her that is for certain that even her followers believe is that she "lay down with a dragon"

Well, it's well established that everyone believes that. While I'm accepting the story myself, I still see room for it to be the case that the truth really has been entirely lost at this point.

(post limit is annoying)

If you mean the 1,000 character limit, just do what I'm about to do. Type your message in Notepad or something, post a message on the board saying "edit incoming" or something, then copy/paste your message into an edit. Edits bypass the character limit.

[myahele]

Well it might not mean much, but Yugiri does say that there are Sacred Snowcapped mountains similar to Coerthas where blood mustn't be spilled, and that there was too much bloodshed in Coerthas.

But most importantly, the presence of heretic harriers in Mor Dhona makes sense now

[lololink]

About Shiva and her dragonosexuality, in the french version of the game it's clearly stated that she had sex with a dragon, to symbolize the union between men and dragons and the possibility of a peace in this neverending war ( Which the Ishgard writters apprently tried to hide ), Shiva's last word when you kill her could also be translated as "I wish I could fly with you my beloved" clearly stating that she was in love with that dragon.