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  1. #1
    Player
    treuhavik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    689
    Character
    Vik Vicious
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Craiger View Post
    There is no Doton in that "guide" for the AoE part... Which is a DPS loss.
    He's right. Doton > Katon IF the pack of mobs is alive for 19+ seconds and agrees to stand in the fire, which is rare in my experience. Also, it's not much but, Katon is a .5 second faster cast and doesn't have a positional req. So, I guess it's good if you've traded your party's BLM for a tank with lead feet.
    (0)
    Last edited by treuhavik; 11-14-2014 at 03:44 AM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Alistaire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    2,980
    Character
    Your Character
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Blue Mage Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by treuhavik View Post
    He's right. Doton > Katon IF the pack of mobs is alive for 19+ seconds and agrees to stand in the fire, which is rare in my experience. Also, it's not much but, Katon is a .5 second faster cast and doesn't have a positional req. So, I guess it's good if you've traded your party's BLM for a tank with lead feet.
    Not quite. doton = katon if mobs are up 18-20 seconds and are never moved out of the circle. 21 seconds is the time where it's a slight improvement, and it's kind of an unlikely situation. As far as katon vs doton positional requirements, you're in the middle of the group doing death blossoms anyway so that's a moot point.

    But basically, doton is bad unless your overall dps is also bad.

    Edit: also there will be cases when some mobs are up for 21 seconds and the katon still wins. If even 1 mob dies before the full duration, especially if it dies quickly, the katon on more # of mobs wins.
    (0)
    Last edited by Alistaire; 11-14-2014 at 11:45 AM.

  3. #3
    Player
    Ooshima's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,925
    Character
    Rui Ooshima
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Cynric View Post
    Yeah I got quite a lot of help testing last night. Wish I could take video easier , but SKSPD to be @ 2.00- GCD is best indeed. I'd like to add that I feel like when there are times like say we are on dancing edge rotation but Dancing edge will refresh at 4 s or more we can do an ID(yeah I know bear with me) before the Spin as filler to make a bit more use of those extra seconds. But I didn't get to test this enough to see if its worth it before my friend went to sleep. Do you mind testing for me?
    I've also noticed the same thing while practicing lots with my ninja. At some point or another you will either refresh Dancing Edge 1s earlier or having Shadow Fang/Mutilate dropped for 1s, but I think that's not too bad.

    I will see if throwing dagger as a filler will be better or not. More than likely, I think we shouldn't. Unless you are sure that if you go ahead with your rotation you will clip both Shadow Fang and Mutilate with each having one more tick to go, then the potency might worth since Shadow Fang = 40, Mutliate = 30, Throwing Dagger = 120, total 190 potency.
    (0)

  4. #4
    Player
    Cynric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Uldah
    Posts
    1,215
    Character
    Cynric Caliburn
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Ooshima View Post
    I've also noticed the same thing while practicing lots with my ninja. At some point or another you will either refresh Dancing Edge 1s earlier or having Shadow Fang/Mutilate dropped for 1s, but I think that's not too bad.

    I will see if throwing dagger as a filler will be better or not. More than likely, I think we shouldn't. Unless you are sure that if you go ahead with your rotation you will clip both Shadow Fang and Mutilate with each having one more tick to go, then the potency might worth since Shadow Fang = 40, Mutliate = 30, Throwing Dagger = 120, total 190 potency.
    Sorry I didn't mean T D I meant I D as in Impulse Drive

    Dagger costs too much TP for our 2 s GCD to be worth it
    (0)

  5. #5
    Player
    Ooshima's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,925
    Character
    Rui Ooshima
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Cynric View Post
    Sorry I didn't mean T D I meant I D as in Impulse Drive

    Dagger costs too much TP for our 2 s GCD to be worth it
    We can cross Impulse Drive? (not very sure because that never came to my options list lol).
    (0)

  6. #6
    Player
    Tilgung's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    323
    Character
    Raein Tilgung
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Ooshima View Post
    We can cross Impulse Drive? (not very sure because that never came to my options list lol).
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player
    treuhavik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    689
    Character
    Vik Vicious
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistaire View Post
    Not quite. doton = katon if mobs are up 18-20 seconds and are never moved out of the circle. 21 seconds is the time where it's a slight improvement, and it's kind of an unlikely situation. As far as katon vs doton positional requirements, you're in the middle of the group doing death blossoms anyway so that's a moot point.

    But basically, doton is bad unless your overall dps is also bad.

    Edit: also there will be cases when some mobs are up for 21 seconds and the katon still wins. If even 1 mob dies before the full duration, especially if it dies quickly, the katon on more # of mobs wins.
    Thanks for supporting my point and my lolflowchart. Dim MS paint skillz doe. ;D

    So far the only time I've found Doton to be of use is during add phase in Shiva Ex.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ehayte View Post
    Doton > Katon > Kassatsu > Katon.
    And this is exactly how I've been doing it.
    (1)
    Last edited by treuhavik; 11-15-2014 at 12:06 AM.