NIN Opener / Rotation

[Craiger]

Awesome. Except that should be "Are there 3 or more mobs?"

There is no Doton in that "guide" for the AoE part... Which is a DPS loss.

Doton does 240 potency, and Koton does just 180. If Kassatsu is up, you should do Koton -> Kassatsu -> Doton. Yes, Doton crits....

Opener:

For the opener I just use the one MrHappy put up some days ago...

Huton(pre-cast so that you can use Mudras again after 2 GCD skills) ->
B4B + IR(Pre-cast right before) -> Spinning(DEX pot) -> Gust(Suiton) -> Dancing(Trick Attack) -> Mutilate(Kassatsu) -> Spinning(Raiton) -> Shadow Fang(Mug) -> Spinning(Jug) etc..

Don't know if it's optimal, but it gives you the highest possible damage output during the Trick Attack. If you don't use a pot, just weave in IR after your first Spinning Edge instead obviously...

[Vaala]

There is no Doton in that "guide" for the AoE part... Which is a DPS loss.

Doton does 240 potency, and Koton does just 180. If Kassatsu is up, you should do Koton -> Kassatsu -> Doton. Yes, Doton crits....

Was thinking about this just last night. Sounds like Doton > Katon in all AoE situations unless mobs won't live long enough for duration, or if the situation you listed where you can use both with Kassatsu. Am I understanding that right?

[Cynric]

Was thinking about this just last night. Sounds like Doton > Katon in all AoE situations unless mobs won't live long enough for duration, or if the situation you listed where you can use both with Kassatsu. Am I understanding that right?

on paper doton looks stronger. but 24s is a pretty long time with death blossom every 2s + your other party doing AoE. I don't think i've run into a lot of situations where Doton gets to fully tick on anything if I do a buffed katon first while spamming buffed dbs

on another note though doton, and hyoton are amazing in pvp.

[Craiger]

on paper doton looks stronger. but 24s is a pretty long time with death blossom every 2s + your other party doing AoE. I don't think i've run into a lot of situations where Doton gets to fully tick on anything if I do a buffed katon first while spamming buffed dbs

on another note though doton, and hyoton are amazing in pvp.

I don't know what scenarios you are talking about, but you pre-cast B4B/IR and your Katon so that you can cast it as soon as the enemies are in position, and then quickly do Kassatsu -> Doton... And Doton only needs to last for 18 secs to be as good as Katon, meaning that if the enemies last for more than like 20 seconds, it's worth doing Doton. With Ninja's crappy AoE dps, they usually last more than that.

No point in arguing about it though... It still sucks

[Dante_V]

When we parse our Ninjas we count from the first move cast. The cast of Huton initiates the parse, if you are waiting the 10 - 20 secs before attacking that should be included into the number as zero DPS. That's 10-20 seconds of no dps. Otherwise you are legitimately loading the number to a very circumstantial degree. Most situations do not allow you to stand there and wait for your cool down and for all intents this should be counted against your dps. From an objective context any move that results in unsheathing your weapon should be counted as the initiation of a parse.

Another downside to going straight into TA is that you aren't capturing most of the team dps burst in the ten second window as most take a few GCDS to get to their sweet spot so you would be again falsely inflating your own dps but in this instance at the expense of your teams average.

[Cynric]

snip.

Okay so while your party is casting stoneskin/protect/succor prepull everyone in your party is counting zero DPS because the fight started right? 8 stoneskins at the most 2.5s per Stoneskin, It's very easy to prebuff huton during this time.

By your logic while the Whms and Scholars are prebuffing the party I should run at the enemy before everyone else is ready.

[Mardel]

Another downside to going straight into TA is that you aren't capturing most of the team dps burst in the ten second window as most take a few GCDS to get to their sweet spot so you would be again falsely inflating your own dps but in this instance at the expense of your teams average.

I somewhat agree with this, for monk / drg this is true.

[treuhavik]

Another downside to going straight into TA is that you aren't capturing most of the team dps burst in the ten second window as most take a few GCDS to get to their sweet spot so you would be again falsely inflating your own dps but in this instance at the expense of your teams average.

I somewhat agree with this, for monk / drg this is true.

Even starting the fight with Huton (which you'd better fcking do), a Ninja isn't going to be immediately using TA. It's going to be around 8-12 seconds, plenty of time for any decent Monk to have GL3 from PB and a Dragoon will likely be applying Chaos Thrust in time to catch the vulnerability. It couldn't be more perfect for the other melee.

[Mardel]

Even starting the fight with Huton (which you'd better fcking do), a Ninja isn't going to be immediately using TA. It's going to be around 8-12 seconds, plenty of time for any decent Monk to have GL3 from PB and a Dragoon will likely be applying Chaos Thrust in time to catch the vulnerability. It couldn't be more perfect for the other melee.

Ya, of course have huton up. I'm just agreeing that people should probably delay their TA ever so slightly.

[Sleigh]

When we parse our Ninjas we count from the first move cast. The cast of Huton initiates the parse, if you are waiting the 10 - 20 secs before attacking that should be included into the number as zero DPS. That's 10-20 seconds of no dps. Otherwise you are legitimately loading the number to a very circumstantial degree. Most situations do not allow you to stand there and wait for your cool down and for all intents this should be counted against your dps. From an objective context any move that results in unsheathing your weapon should be counted as the initiation of a parse.

From an objective context any attack should be counted as the initiation of a parse, not any action. Not a buff. Enrage timer starts upon first attack, DPS checks for phase pushes start at first attack, the MP lifeblood of your healers starts at first attack ... not when you unsheathe your weapon.

You can realistically do anything you want before a tank pull, buff wise. Huton 15s before pull, pre-buff if you're into that. No reason why you should mandate that's part of your DPS.