NIN Opener / Rotation

[Ehayte]

RE: Skill Speed - it seems like people are really considering it for NIN since TP isn't really being a huge issue for anybody.

RE: Applying DoTs etc - The argument is not "DoTs or DE first?" Its "unbuffed dots first or buffs first?"

My logic was that doing anything that delays me being able to use BFB/IR for 9 seconds into a fight is probably going to be a DPS loss, especially if that extends to 10-15 seconds, as that prevents me from using them again quicker. Same goes for Suiton, ninjitsu, etc, the more you can use those skills the better. Unbuffed dots ticking away is probably never a dps increase when you have other skills that buff your damage available to use unless you aren't in melee range.

And the theorycrafting for the first 20s of the fight is total garbage because it doesn't take into consideration the next 2-3 minutes of contact that you get with the boss without having a reasonable reset of cool-downs (T9 phase changes come to mind). The opener should be something that sets you up to sustain your DPS in raid fights, not get out the most damage in the least amount of time, that would be a burst rotation.

NIN's should be really easy because they have literally NO ramp up, whereas with MNK you want to wait for GL3 to start doling out BFB/IR/SP/HF etc because you get that huge dmg + that you can only get from GCD skills.

I messed with the suggested rotation of Mutilate>shadow fang>buffs>Ninjitsu and while I saw myself pop up above the solo-healing WHM in enmity at the start of the fight, I noticed that I was able to get up there at the #2 spot longer if I popped CDs first.

Ooshima I'm interested in what you have to say about not pre-casting Huton - I can't imagine that not hurting your overall DPS, as you can start the fight with a Suiton and get a TA 20 seconds quicker on a cycle. I mean in T8 I could see this not mattering, but in a fight like T9, Levi X (to call out an old one, lol), etc where you can breaking from combat once every 1-3 minutes I have to believe it would substantial.

I would love input from someone who is using NIN in FCoB or something (my group is still on T9 >.<) and has just a ludicrous amount of experience in different situations and also someone who is taking trick attack buffs to party members into consideration.

Lastly, as a quick aside, I went into T9 as NIN last night for the first time instead of my MNK, and even though I went from doing something like 375 in P1 on MNK (i107) to 340 as NIN (also i107) because of some newb mistakes, etc, our group was pushing P1 faster that we ever have. We saw a really nice increase to dps across the board with TA. I'd say that if you can put out at least 90-95% of the dps on NIN that you were on MNK, its going to be a substantial gain for your raid group for you to go NIN.

[MrCookTM]

RE: Skill Speed - it seems like people are really considering it for NIN since TP isn't really being a huge issue for anybody.

TP is still an issue, even for Nin. In T8 you will still run dry if you fuck up invigorate timing and goad is not usable on yourself.

Besides that, this was never the reason why sks is not good for melee dps, just the reason why most monks will stack crit over sks, because while they are similarly low in terms of stat weights, stacking crit doesn't have a real downside like running dry in high uptime fights. The only reasons why crit is weighted so low on mnk are a) traited inner release and b) bootshine autocrit every second rotation. Nin doesn't have either of them so crit is weithed higher for nin than mnk by default. The question now is, is sks also weighted higher? If so, why should it?

Like I already pointed out, sks is a bad attribute because SE designed it in a bad way. The fact that it only affects gcd and not auto attacks (and of course not ogcd skills and not dots) puts it at a pretty big disadvantage versus crit and det, both of which increase the damage of everything you do, no matter if it's a regular gcd skill, dot, auto attack (which is roughly 30% of a melee dps' damage) or ogcd skills.

I am all up for trying and theory crafting different builds, even for trying to make stuff like sks on a melee/tank/bard or spellspeed on a summoner work. I just don't think that this will end in a dps increase for the above stated reasons.

[Ehayte]

TP is still an issue, even for Nin. In T8 you will still run dry if you fuck up invigorate timing and goad is not usable on yourself.

I'm going to off-topic town.

OK, cool. Back to opening rotations.