NIN Opener / Rotation

[Cynric]

snip

Well look at it like this I'll try to make it more simple. I have mutilate and Fang ticking while I apply Dancing combo, At this point you're already bursting your CDs down, Then you fall off and only got the single mutilate and SF out fully buffed, while I start bursting with my full buffs up.

By doing it the way I said it you do get to have SF combo, Aeolian combo, Raiton, Mutilate, Mug, Jugulate, all buffed by Trick B4B IR and Dancing,but you also get an extra 5 ticks of Mutilate and an extra 4 ticks of SF as well as no wasted time on buffs. You also get an earlier start 10s vs 15 s. The biggest difference is my rotation you really need to be doing Ninjutsu in the 2ish seconds it takes. But optimizing doesn't usually leave room for mistakes.

tl;dr : You get 4 extra ticks of SF , 5 extra ticks of mutilate, plus full mutilate , full shadow, full aeolian, raiton, suiton, all fully buffed and room to add a potion in to increase the buff damage vs just the full mutilate, shadow raiton and suiton.

[Ephier]

Interesting points and too much for me to wrap my head around right now (at work), but I'm not entirely convinced applying DoTs before buffs given that timing is most appropriate with the whole scope included... hmmmm.

K, I'll show you math why dots first is better.

Mutilate first: 60/300-150-200/240-150-200-260 - 1290 potency
Shadow Fang First: 150-200/240-60/300-150-200-260 - 1270 potency
Dancing Edge first: 150-200-250-165-220/240-66/300 - 1101 potency

Dots first is better.

[Ooshima]

This is what i've been doing with pretty good success . Huton prepull >(10s is best start , 10s gives you an extra raiton without losing huton for even one second, anymore than 11 s before start and the extra raiton will cause you to lose huton for a bit) Mutilate > Spin > Shadow > Spin(Blood) > Gust(Internal) > Dancing(Suiton)> Spin(trick)>Shadow(Kassatsu)>Mutilate(Raiton)>Spin(Jugulate)>Gust(Mug)>Aeolian(TA+IR end) > Spin(B4B end) > Gust > Dancing reapply

Can add Xpot/mega pot of dex after first shadow fang for that to be up for the DoT snapshot as well. With this I get a good potency start, all DoT's snapshotted with full buffs (blood,Internal,potion,trick) and you get to have blood +TA+ IR+ DE up for the full Aeolian edge combo + DoTs.

Can I check with IL110 gear and weapon, without food, pot and party buff, how much DPS does this parse in a typical 3-5mins dummy parse.

[Cynric]

Can I check with IL110 gear and weapon, without food, pot and party buff, how much DPS does this parse in a typical 3-5mins dummy parse.

i'll check for you when I can log back in, the sustain parse I was getting with just party buff was 480-490 with a few mistakes in my rotation. I wasn't full 110 when I checked it though had full 110 except my ring was i90 and using the tomestone 110 weapon.

I have to have a friend check the damage with me though since I'm a ps3 player. So I might not get back to you till tomorrow.

[Ooshima]

i'll check for you when I can log back in, the sustain parse I was getting with just party buff was 480-490 with a few mistakes in my rotation. I wasn't full 110 when I checked it though had full 110 except my ring was i90 and using the tomestone 110 weapon.

I have to have a friend check the damage with me though since I'm a ps3 player. So I might not get back to you till tomorrow.

If you are not that far from full IL110 then it doesn't really matter if your secondary stats (determination in particular) makes up for it and you have a party buff (which is 15DEX onwards).

For me I have been practicing a rotation that maintains at 480 without any buffs but requires a skill speed of 488 (I've checked your profile, you have a lower working skill speed) so that my GCD with Huton is 2.0s in order not to drop my Dancing Ede debuff. I'll probably give your rotation a test run to see if there is any improvements. I think theoretically there should be.

But I am trying to avoid the Huton pre-pull thing because it is a risk - you have to ensure that the tank pulls exactly at the time you want, a little troublesome. I may take into account your buff calculations and modify my version.

(Edit: I noticed that you intentionally opened with DoT and you clipped it with half time left with the buffed version).

[MrCookTM]

If you are not that far from full IL110 then it doesn't really matter if your secondary stats (determination in particular) makes up for it and you have a party buff (which is 15DEX onwards).

For me I have been practicing a rotation that maintains at 480 without any buffs but requires a skill speed of 488 (I've checked your profile, you have a lower working skill speed) so that my GCD with Huton is 2.0s in order not to drop my Dancing Ede debuff. I'll probably give your rotation a test run to see if there is any improvements. I think theoretically there should be.

But I am trying to avoid the Huton pre-pull thing because it is a risk - you have to ensure that the tank pulls exactly at the time you want, a little troublesome. I may take into account your buff calculations and modify my version.

(Edit: I noticed that you intentionally opened with DoT and you clipped it with half time left with the buffed version).

Do you have the gear to make a parse with less sks and more det/crit with a comparable ilvl? I get that 2.0s gcd makes the rotation better for dancing edge uptime, yet I'm still not sure if this makes up for the loss of det/crit you have for stacking sks that high, especially regarding sks not having impact on auto attacks and those being such a huge part of melee dps damage.

[treuhavik]

[Alistaire]

Awesome. Except that should be "Are there 3 or more mobs?"

[Craiger]

Awesome. Except that should be "Are there 3 or more mobs?"

There is no Doton in that "guide" for the AoE part... Which is a DPS loss.

Doton does 240 potency, and Koton does just 180. If Kassatsu is up, you should do Koton -> Kassatsu -> Doton. Yes, Doton crits....

Opener:

For the opener I just use the one MrHappy put up some days ago...

Huton(pre-cast so that you can use Mudras again after 2 GCD skills) ->
B4B + IR(Pre-cast right before) -> Spinning(DEX pot) -> Gust(Suiton) -> Dancing(Trick Attack) -> Mutilate(Kassatsu) -> Spinning(Raiton) -> Shadow Fang(Mug) -> Spinning(Jug) etc..

Don't know if it's optimal, but it gives you the highest possible damage output during the Trick Attack. If you don't use a pot, just weave in IR after your first Spinning Edge instead obviously...

[Vaala]

There is no Doton in that "guide" for the AoE part... Which is a DPS loss.

Doton does 240 potency, and Koton does just 180. If Kassatsu is up, you should do Koton -> Kassatsu -> Doton. Yes, Doton crits....

Was thinking about this just last night. Sounds like Doton > Katon in all AoE situations unless mobs won't live long enough for duration, or if the situation you listed where you can use both with Kassatsu. Am I understanding that right?