Enhancements to log to support Damage Per Second (DPS) Measuring Tool

[AlexionSkylark]

The OP actually asked for SE to take a positive stance about parsers, here:

Square Enix, could you please provide an official statement that you approve the use of third party programs which merely and only read the log files generated by FFXIV?

That's what I'm taking the "against" stance here.

[Bixby]

Yeah, that part of the OP is silly & unrealistic.

I'm personally only saying what I'm saying: The combat log should be complete and accurate.

[Niwashi]

If a Bard sings Foe Requiem, so the Black Mage is able to get better damage output, should the Bard therefore be kicked for having lower damage than the Black Mage? That's the sort of situation parsers encourage. It disincentivizes making the group better, by placing the focus on being individually better than the rest of your group. Groups that resort to parsers can forget about getting the benefit of any sort of support skills. In fact, they can generally forget about ever being even half-way decent at playing, because their tools are encouraging them to play badly.

If you want to know how your DPS is, just look at how fast the mobs are dying. That's a far more accurate measurement than any number some parser can give you.


As for just adding more detail to the log, I don't think making it work better with parsers would be a good reason for it, and I don't see much other reason for it.

[BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY]

People are gonna get parsed ANYWAY, and if they suck, they might get kicked with no reason even given due to parsing being illegal. IF people HAD access to this tool, then they might be able to check their contribution to a fight.

We all know when tanks or healers aren't up to scratch, why not dps? But adversely, a tank really knows when he messes up, and can seek advice and help. A dps could be throwing out terribad damage, and actually think he's doing great. THIS is unfair. I don't care about carebears happy dream fantasy land, I want people to be able to analyse themselves. Tanks and healers can do it ( obviously ) why exclude dps?

And before ppl start raining tears " oh but ill get kicked because I have crap damage and cant be bothered to do anything about it"........well, tanks and healers get kicked everyday for not doing their job to some sort of acceptable level.

here's a thought... maybe they should try reading the tool tips for their actions? maybe they should play more to gain experience? maybe ask questions when there are doubts. a DRG not using Heavy Thrust should either play an easier job or uninstall. since no jobs are easier then DRG...

There is no downside to a complete & accurate combat log.

i 100% agree. there are plenty of games out there with quite the detailed score card. i've been playing DCUO for over 2 years now. and have never heard anyone give anyone any greif over their end results. even if they are lower then average. instead i hear people giving advice on power loadouts or which weapon to use n such.

[Laraul]

The purpose of the battle log is NOT so it can be parsed by a third party tool! The purpose of a "battle log" is to give a player a chance to review what took place in battle to determine what took place in battle, ongoing or prior! Too bad the way the data is presented makes quickly skimming thru to find the information you find relevant impossible. And the battle log filters are contradictory and basically unusable.

Honestly the problem with the battle log is you NEED a third party parser to make sense of it. The battle log needs a complete overhaul. It should be easy for a human to comprehend first and foremost!

[Meier]

You can analize yourself using the tool already. Yoshida himself already said openly that he know about the tool just advised us to "keep it for ourselves about it".

Making parsers taboo within the game is what kept that WoW-like hostile atmosphere between and towards DPS classes at bay. We don't need that kind of attitude here. The taboo is pretty well placed, thank you.

No you can't. It doesn't accurately read SMN dots.

[Viridiana]

here's a thought... maybe they should try reading the tool tips for their actions? maybe they should play more to gain experience? maybe ask questions when there are doubts.

While I agree that those are good starts, they aren't the full story. Some classes have things that are rather unintuitive about their dps if you really break things down into the nitty gritty, and reading tooltips isn't going to be enough. To use a NIN example, if a player messes up their rotation and is about to drop Huton, but has Kassatsu up, at what point does it become worth using Kassatsu to reapply Huton instead of saving it for Raiton? That's something a tooltip isn't going to tell you. To be fair, a parser isn't going to tell you, either, but it's an example of something you can't find just from the tooltips. As for asking questions when there are doubts, that requires that people doubt themselves. Even ignoring the Dunning-Kruger effect, otherwise perfectly competent people can easily miss something that is blatantly obvious. I've had uncountable arguments with people about how dots function in this game even though everything I said about them should be obvious. And that's not even counting the one guy who swore up and down that you can only possibly get, like, 18 tics of Bio in a minute or some such.

The purpose of the battle log is NOT so it can be parsed by a third party tool! The purpose of a "battle log" is to give a player a chance to review what took place in battle to determine what took place in battle, ongoing or prior! Too bad the way the data is presented makes quickly skimming thru to find the information you find relevant impossible. And the battle log filters are contradictory and basically unusable.

Honestly the problem with the battle log is you NEED a third party parser to make sense of it. The battle log needs a complete overhaul. It should be easy for a human to comprehend first and foremost!

There are a good number of problems with the battle log. Let's see if I can count them:

1. You can't display seconds in the time stamps
2. Dot damage is not displayed at all
3. Ground based effects like Flaming Arrow aren't shown at all
4. Contagion isn't shown in the log
5. Enemies with the same name aren't distinguished in the log

I'm sure there are more, but that's what I can think of at the moment.

[Laraul]

People are going to use a DPS parser regardless what SE says. And DPS parsers don't turn people into jerks. They come into the game that way. You know the ones that say "Know how to play your job!" And "You don't know the fight!" These people say hurtful things all the time to people. Why. Cuz they're Jerks.

My point is, parsers don't change people's behavior. They won't increase harassment or poison the community. In fact, your just as likely to receive positive feedback as you are negative.

[Nicobo]

...That's asking SPECIFICALLY for the negative side of the tool, and no, we don't need that in our community...

On youtube I can see a lot of real time parsing, TBH, it delivers how to "know to play the game". That's why a lot of ppl asking for it.
Maybe just ruin parsers by removing numbers in combat log, everyone read the numbers on screen. ^^;

[Catsby]

Yes there is. The social implications of having numbers with which to judge people, and the extreme potential of the tool being misused to promote elitist behaviour.

{{Citation needed}}