Let Players Speed Run Again

[Spoekes]

He has a point there Lace.
Beeing pushed to the limit in the dungeon content does teach handling stressful situations, mana management etc. That skill can be applied to raid content.

The thing to note here is that not everybody you meet in dungeons is running raid content or training to do it for that matter.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

You've made some good points as well, Spoekes.

I may be different, but I learned all of that in dungeons without speed running, and refined it in raids. I'd even go so far as to say I REALLY learned how to play well from raiding, and all that simply because I wanted something else to focus on other than relics. And now it's my most favorite thing in game. Again, speaking only for myself, I simply feel like I have nothing to learn or benefit from speed runs. Tomes, bonuses, and even time aren't incentives for me, believe it or not.

[Divine_Intervention]

While I can appreciate the fun of doing dungeons in their normal pace (i think i did have an earlier post in this thread to that effect), I have realised I can't stand these three dungeons for trying to spam soldiery for alexandrite. It takes forever. And going into HM's to try to get a newb doesn't work all that well when the other 7 people in the DF had the same idea lol. Would be nice to have somewhere to speed run this content again.

[Jinrya-Geki]

So let me get this straight. If someone uses a party finder and specifies they want to go slow (aka the pace the game was developed) and you (joined that party?) you would go the speed they wanted and not have a problem with it?

And just for the record, not that you said this, I think it is backwards to use the party finder for "pug groups" and the DF for "pros". This is the only mmo I've seen ever have that mentality. It's "Pick up Group" for crying out loud. That term has been around forever and applies to all kinds of things. "Never know what you'll get" has always been synonymous with it as well.

No, I wouldn't have a problem with going slow. The party doesn't bother me, it's the mechanics making it slow. If you could straight shot to all the boss with every single enemy as an option, but the party was slow I wouldn't care. The option to go faster is still there.

[Zedd702]

No, it's true. If you use an oGCD, the previous GCD will have damage (and effects) register immediately.

You're welcome.

I get that. There is often times where it does register, but there are other times where the effect of stun and damage doesn't register, and the character is still stuck in the animation. What I am saying is: the cooldown phase and the stun timer it is over as you are casting your heal or next holy. And I am referring to those instances where the tank pulls AND takes damage as the are still gathering enemies and BEFORE we make it to the point where he/she stops to actually establish aggro so that I don't get massacred by the mobs by healing him/her.

I know what you were talking about above and I've done it many times over. It's still not 100% safe to do or required from a whm. I'm not saying you were incorrect, but trust me, I'm not wrong either with what I said above. That was my point.

You've made some good points as well, Spoekes.

I may be different, but I learned all of that in dungeons without speed running, and refined it in raids. I'd even go so far as to say I REALLY learned how to play well from raiding, and all that simply because I wanted something else to focus on other than relics. And now it's my most favorite thing in game. Again, speaking only for myself, I simply feel like I have nothing to learn or benefit from speed runs. Tomes, bonuses, and even time aren't incentives for me, believe it or not.

Speed runs really serve no purpose, but a big chaos fest, which can be fun at times, with the proper team/makeup. I've done "mob by mob" (but non-stop approaching each group one after another) dungeons runs in the same time or slightly more (about 5 minutes) than a well ran, no error speed run. Same tomes, same rewards, no extra achievements... It's merely preference, nothing more...

[technole]

Yea and people struggle to clear things because they don't care about their own performance in a group setting.

Pushing limits in speed runs for dungeon content translates well into performance in raid content.

Agreed. How one handles situations that can go wrong in dungeons too can translate to dealing with the pressure in raids.

[Zedd702]

Agreed. How one handles situations that can go wrong in dungeons too can translate to dealing with the pressure in raids.

Problem is this thread is NOT about raid content even though you make a valid point. That's the main issue I have when it comes to elitists views of almost everything. People make comments about "dungeon" content and in comes the elitists that make it all about "raid" content... That's where the miscommunications and unnecessary drama forms. If the raiders would learn to differentiate between the two and think outside your normal static coil farms, then there'd be less of this back and forth where both sides points are completely true, but one side is much more relevant than the other...

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

No, I wouldn't have a problem with going slow. The party doesn't bother me, it's the mechanics making it slow. If you could straight shot to all the boss with every single enemy as an option, but the party was slow I wouldn't care. The option to go faster is still there.

So we're again back to the fact that you'd prefer if all dungeons were more like Brayflox HM, guildhests, or even Coil turns? Basically short, ungated in any way, and able to be bypassed almost entirely for the sake of ONE particular play style?

Imagine for a moment if I were a dev, and I listened to that and made every dungeon a glorified enemy gauntlet that you didn't even really need to fight. . . what would even be the point? I said it before, but why not just copy-paste the same backdrop and throw in some random enemies that pose no threat? Might as well make them i55 considering no one's really going to bother with them. . .

I'll tell you why. Because THAT is boring. That's the kind of content you run once and never bother again. It's boring, uninspired, and if enemies are designed to be bypassed, then why bother putting them there in the first place?

Sorry Jinraya, but this is what you make it seem like, and fact is, that would be the most boring content in the game if created that way. Mechanics keep things interesting and engaging, gates and drops control pacing. Because even if you don't speed run, you WILL learn the dungeon and do it faster anyways (speed run or no). And the last thing we need is more players standing around Mor Dhona complaining that there's nothing to do or not enough interesting content.

[FranSeara]

Problem is this thread is NOT about raid content even though you make a valid point. That's the main issue I have when it comes to elitists views of almost everything. People make comments about "dungeon" content and in comes the elitists that make it all about "raid" content... That's where the miscommunications and unnecessary drama forms. If the raiders would learn to differentiate between the two and think outside your normal static coil farms, then there'd be less of this back and forth where both sides points are completely true, but one side is much more relevant than the other...

Pretty much all this. I wish raiders could understand that not everyone cares about endgame stuff. Some of us are not training for T??, and some of us non-raiders don't care about speed running and the coils.

[Jinrya-Geki]

...

It's already boring now, waiting.


It's always the same with every dungeon once you do it once, it's boring. Nothing is going to change that unless they make random generated dungeons that change everytime with the amount of monsters changing to. Which is this game could be done on a lore perspective by like Diablos changing the stage, or Aetheryte constantly changing elements changes effect where you end up in snow cloak, considering how huge it's supposed to be as said by Aymeric.

That took 5 minutes of thinking. Already thought of something you can't get used to just 5 minutes. In several months they rehash the same content, really. Developing it does take time, but your telling me in 3 years that they can only make 1 unique dungeon, the one where you ride your magitek. That's seems really sad cause every other dungeon is virtually the same otherwise.