Let Players Speed Run Again

[AsunaTear]

If they can do a dungeon in 10 minutes rather than 25, they'll do it, me included. That being said, tanks should really get into the habit of asking if people want to speed run rather than taking off the starting line and dying within 10 seconds because they are undergeared/healer is undergeared/dps are horrible aoe comp, like MNK/MNK

Heyyy, i'm a MNK ilv 119 and i kill a mob very fast. U are right about we having few worthy AOEs but we can PB>Rockbreaker 5 times in a row. And even if we don't have PB at the time, we can use the speed run to kill all mobs one by one very fast because we don't need to rebuild GL3 between packs of mobs, all mobs are there. We start killing the more annoying or strong ones to the weakest ones, for each mob killed more easy to healer keep u tanks up. I've been in more speed runs that i can count and no Tank complained about me and i have 805 comendations already. Besides bosses dies way faster with a good MNK around.

[Anty]

i agree with you Jinrya. All mechanics to stop the speed/aoe runs are to give the single target dps more meaning. Which per se isn't that bad. but it's a very poor way of implementing/forcing it.
Instead they should decrease trash and give us more bigger/Halfbosses, where single Target dps can shine. But sadly its always the same. positioning got watered down already cause of the stupid aoe, cone aoe cone trash mob moves. tanking isnt much fun, no matter if you speed run or not. I rather prefer to time a stun, or a spirit within cause it MATTERS, then to contantly dance around cone cone cone aoe aoe ...

no wonder ppl speedrun or go tank whm blm blm and holy/flare the shit out of the mobs. it's the only effective way and to me nuking them down is far more fun then contantly avoiding aoes/cones. It's boring and lacks any kind of creativity so, as you said: either give us better dungeons (optics are nice always, but they are boring and easy 1 day after they go live) or let us speedrun them better.

i would ofc prefer better mechanics since obviously all creative content goes to coils and weekly lockout content, the majoriy of the content added is extremely dull.

[Jinrya-Geki]

Cause dungeons are really painful, right? O.o

They really are not that painful, and the dungeons to this point can be sped run to a point, just not at the extent as they used to before.

The dungeons are fine and you need to stop whining. Same with the poetic cap removal.

whatever, white knight keep dreaming.

[Spoekes]

Actually, in my opinion, the current solution in the dungeons is trying to cater to both the speed runner and the player that just hit the item level requirement for the dungeon or someone new to the dungeon.
It's a fair middle ground.

If you make Trash harder to the point it is a challenge for ilvl110+ players, you must raise the level cap, which is not inline the ilvl 90 drops in there.
The other solution would be to reimplement the levelsynch to High level and Expert dungeons and have a challenge, so that you can see the dungeon is not too easy, you are just way too overgeared.

You just cannot make every one happy.
tbh, I hope you stay unhappy in this regard.

[Jinrya-Geki]

Actually, in my opinion, the current solution in the dungeons is trying to cater to both the speed runner and the player that just hit the item level requirement for the dungeon or someone new to the dungeon.
It's a fair middle ground.

If you make Trash harder to the point it is a challenge for ilvl110+ players, you must raise the level cap, which is not inline the ilvl 90 drops in there.
The other solution would be to reimplement the levelsynch to High level and Expert dungeons and have a challenge, so that you can see the dungeon is not too easy, you are just way too overgeared.

You just cannot make every one happy.
tbh, I hope you stay unhappy in this regard.

it's very easy to make me happy. Just SE does everything wrong about it. I can think of several things they can do way better than they do now.

Taking away the stop zones in every area is a good start. You have no real counter-argument other than to say no basically. If there were no stop zones, people can go what ever speed they want. The argument goes back and further except to this regard, if you have your way people can ONLY go slow. Where in my cause you can go slow or fast, everyone wins


You have a keyboard type you want to go slow. If they doen't want to then when they die over and over they'll get the hint. If they boot you, you want to go slow anyway so whats another 10 minute wait before the next group?

[Ogulbuk]

Taking away the stop zones in every area is a good start. You have no real counter-argument other than to say no basically.

From a game designer point of view [not for this game, obviously]: rewards. Rewards tend to be balanced around the idea "how long will it take the average player to complete X". Sometimes the risk factor (chance for failure) is also factored, but the #1 point is how long will it take for X to be done and how fast we want Y to be awarded. Stop gaps (locked doors, death traps, spawn triggers) are all tools that can be used to enforce the speed that is desired to meet the expected completion time averages.

[Noahlimits]

Here's why this is a bad idea: (brace yourself, I'll be editing this to exceed the character limit)

From a healer's perspective - Nothing is more boring to me than when a tank just pulls everything then I'm pretty much auto-pilot healing repeatedly for the next minute or so while everyone else spams AoEs ad-nauseum. Plus, you know, if I'm not stuck healing constantly, I CAN help fight. . .

If you aren't DPSing as a healer even if your tank pulls the whole dungeon you're not doing something right. You should always be able to dps and heal regardless of the pull size if even moderately geared. That's what being a good healer is.

[technole]

If you aren't DPSing as a healer even if your tank pulls the whole dungeon you're not doing something right. You should always be able to dps and heal regardless of the pull size if even moderately geared.

Agreed. I don't care if it's just shadow flare and throwing a few DoTs on as SCH, or WHM tossing on the DS>Regen, then Swiftcast>Holy. Still plenty of room to squeeze some damage in, and I still think many WHMs forget that Holy does stun which can help the tank take less damage.

[Cerick]

it's very easy to make me happy. Just SE does everything wrong about it....Where in my cause you can go slow or fast, everyone wins...

Sadly, everyone does not win in your scenario. Look at the situation from the SE side. In the past with AK / WP speed runs, there was griefing against non speed runners or specific classes or players that just were not that great at the game and were not capable of speed runs. The outcry led to folks leaving the game. In your situation, you are saying that those who want to go at a slower pace can bash their heads with wipes over and over and then be kicked or create a party finder group? This right here then takes the whole point of the duty finder away from them to join a random group quickly and get content done, but it makes you happy.. so that's all that matters am I right? To you perhaps that really is all that matters, to SE though if players are leaving the game due to speed runs being the forced and norm, then it is lost revenue... eventually you won't have a game to play if there is no money to support it.

Believe it or not, but the casuals and slow pacers actually pay the bills, the elite raiders, edge of your seat speed runners are not the majority. I myself enjoy speed runs and I would rather do them because I want to get in and out ASAP, but I also understand why some things are done in this game to slow the pace a little and I accept that since I still enjoy the game. If speed running is a make or break for you, then it is very possible that FF14 just isn't the game for you any longer. No one can make that choice but you. I hope you find a sense of patience and can slow yourself down a moment to actually enjoy the game you are playing.

[Zedd702]

If you aren't DPSing as a healer even if your tank pulls the whole dungeon you're not doing something right. You should always be able to dps and heal regardless of the pull size if even moderately geared.

Not entirely true...

Agreed. I don't care if it's just shadow flare and throwing a few DoTs on as SCH, or WHM tossing on the DS>Regen, then Swiftcast>Holy. Still plenty of room to squeeze some damage in, and I still think many WHMs forget that Holy does stun which can help the tank take less damage.

Again, not entirely true...

And here's why: You both fail to even look at the possibilities of the tank and his/her gear in question, before assuming the healer is not doing something right. I've been in this situation when I cast SC and shadowflare and before my heal could hit the tank he was dead.

Also regarding Holy, even with Swiftcast, start up on this power lags and by then the tank and healer can take quite a lot of damage before the stun takes effect. Not saying it's impossible, but it's more situational, than it is as black & white as the two of you put it...