Let Players Speed Run Again

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I'm sorry, I'm not picking on you, but it sounds to me like you don't want ANY kind of mechanics, you basically want something akin to FATEs/hunts? I won't debate the drops. I don't see them as such a big deal, but I also don't see much point to them. But the part with the Warden. . . sure, he's not a boss or anything, but if not for the holding mechanic, what's the point of the hands? And what else does he have? An easy to dodge beam? No challenge at all.

And correction: SE never rewarded speed runs. You didn't get anything extra at all. I capped just like everyone else did, every time, and I didn't speed run once. Don't assume however that I did everything at an absolute crawl.

[Jinrya-Geki]

I'm sorry, I'm not picking on you, but it sounds to me like you don't want ANY kind of mechanics, you basically want something akin to FATEs/hunts? I won't debate the drops. I don't see them as such a big deal, but I also don't see much point to them. But the part with the Warden. . . sure, he's not a boss or anything, but if not for the holding mechanic, what's the point of the hands? And what else does he have? An easy to dodge beam? No challenge at all.

And correction: SE never rewarded speed runs. You didn't get anything extra at all. I capped just like everyone else did, every time, and I didn't speed run once. Don't assume however that I did everything at an absolute crawl.

SE used to have a certain numbers of chest drop in 1.0. Darkhold if you speed ran it, would give you 5 chests. If you didn't beat the allotted time, you'd only get 4 chests. Likewise with Aurum Vale.
I don't mind mechanics as long as they are FUN. Coil is fun and hard. Every mechanic is vital to learn. This my best example. Turn 9 is a fun fight. It's not simply tank and spank.

With these new dungeons, they add nothing. They aren't fun. They have no interesting mechanic. It's simple and basic, just everything has a million HP or has something to slow me down. That isn't fun to me at all, it's time wasting. If SE isn't gonna make them fun, why the hell would I want to waste anything more than 10 minutes on a dungeon I am gonna see several hundred times trying to gear my Blm, whm, and pld jobs.

means nothing, if i join an random expert and the dps are terrible or the tanks pull to slow, i still leave. I would rather go do something else for a while than deal with bad / slower players. We will still do premades that go through dungeons as fast as possible, we will still avoid slow people. This changes nothing.

The misconception was it had to do with only how fast people pulled... no when your doing 1/3 the damage of a good player (based on fights taking 3 times as long), we still don't want to paly with you. Its the sum of all parts.

We play differently, I don't leave if a party is slow or not. I'll go any pace. I would like the option to be able to go fast.

You can't damage everything effectively when the tank can't pull everything because of a mechanic like Snowcloaks ice wall area. The wall breaks only after defeating the last. It's a pointless mechanic only there to slow you down, it's not needed.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

You can't damage everything effectively when the tank can't pull everything because of a mechanic like Snowcloaks ice wall area. The wall breaks only after defeating the last. It's a pointless mechanic only there to slow you down, it's not needed.

If your DPS is unable to manage single target damage effectively, I'd call that a bigger problem. Not saying that's the case here, but just putting it in perspective. Also, with regards to the Snowcloak ice wall area, as an interesting inversion of it, it could be said the 1 minute phases of Turn 4 are a "waste" of time. I mean, if the party is good enough, then why not just send them all after you all at once? Same goes for primals and add phases. Going by that logic, those mechanics are a waste of time too.

[Jinrya-Geki]

If your DPS is unable to manage single target damage effectively, I'd call that a bigger problem. Not saying that's the case here, but just putting it in perspective. Also, with regards to the Snowcloak ice wall area, as an interesting inversion of it, it could be said the 1 minute phases of Turn 4 are a "waste" of time. I mean, if the party is good enough, then why not just send them all after you all at once? Same goes for primals and add phases. Going by that logic, those mechanics are a waste of time too.

Yes, they are all waste of time. The difference is all about fun though. My fun is different from your version of fun.

Me having to stop is not fun. Garuda summoning the feather adds doesn't not stop my dps on Garuda though. I flare and burn them all and still do damage to Garuda. But the mechanic of a door staying shut until 2 monster are killed just kill more right after is a waste of time because I can't attack them all at once.

[Brill_]

Speed runners had their chance and they blew it by forcing party they got into to speed run too or they kicked them. If you would have been more tolerant of people that did not want to speed run, people wouldn't have complained so much and you might still be able to speed run.

[SongJoohee]

These dungeons aren't intended to be hard. They serve a few purposes but being hard isn't one of them. Also please remember, these dungeons aren't even intended to be challenged at ilvl 110. The gear we have removes a lot of the challenge, just like in Coil. Second Coil was hard in 90-95 gear, in item level 110? Nope. Same will happen with Final Coil, at the moment it's very challenging and meeting the DPS requirements is rather challenging in 110, in 130 that will be a different story. The same is with the dungeons. Perhaps go and challenge the dungeons in their minimum item levels and see what you think of them then?

Anyway, the purposes of the dungeons at the moment:

1) Easy content for everyone to enjoy without much difficulty
2) Level 50 starter gear for new players/alternative jobs
3) Tomestones

The only thing I dislike about the current system is that to max my Tomestones I don't really have many options. The options I have is either dungeon running or doing Frontlines, the latter of which has horrendous queue times and some changes they made that put me off playing it almost completely. Sure Final Coil gives me 30/turn but that still leaves me with a tonne to gather.

But atleast in the current system, with duty roulette I basically just have to run expert 6/7 days of the week and I will cap my tomestones.

As for the speed running aspect of them, even with the limitations they are insanely fast. If you find them too easy and too limited, push your party more. Drop shield oath/defiance, have your black mages bring ethers for triple flares, have your healers stance dance, heck, if it's so easy, don't even bring a healer, like lucrezia did with Brayflox HM to get a 7:55 speedrun of the entire thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRnkWpx8F3c There's always something you can do to make the dungeon quicker and perhaps more enjoyable to yourself.

[Jinrya-Geki]

...

Yeah, most dungeons are aren't hard, that's the problem. Their mechanics make them slow and boring. I however would like dungeons that take a little more than put "circle shape into circle shape" logic.

Just giving mobs more HP and hitting harder is not a something that challenges the entire party. It needs more battle mechanics, no mechanics that slow you down before each fight.

[Almalexia]

Just giving mobs more HP and hitting harder is not a something that challenges the entire party. It needs more battle mechanics, no mechanics that slow you down before each fight.

Half the fun is speeding in spite of these lockouts. You can't shake a stick at 16m Sastasha when everyone else takes twice as long.

Qarn for example:
1. 3 skeletons + 2 scarabs + facer + ghost.
2. 2 bats + scarab + 2 scarabs + demonsaur: DPS opens the gate to spike trap room.
3. Jump down the hole, get a cure 3 and Medica. Don't need 100% HP to engage boss.
4. 2 scarabs + snake + warden head/hand: DPS should take point to get groped so tank can manage the other mobs.
5. Long tunnel - 2 scarab + snake + facer + 2(3?) scarab + snake: Great place for mage LB.
6. Warden head + 2 hands.
7. Boss.
8. Three raiders: must kill for key.
9. 2 mummies: must kill to open wall.
10. Mummy + 2 skeletons: must kill to open wall.
11. 4 skeletons + 1 golem.
12. Boss

SR isn't throttled until after the second boss, what with small groups in isolated rooms.

Not everything can be Brayflox.

[Leigaon]

Majority of people aren't fans of speed running. You put too much stress on a new player and most of these vets won't listen if they see a new guy who isn't up in iLV to do the spam aoe thing. It didn't use to be like that but because people like the OP forced it on others it became so bad that they've added things to slow you down..or remove things that these speed runners would ignore such as..Bee's. People who want to run through it ignore mechanics and if there happens to be a mechanic that is required to win the run they still try to push through time after time until people quit just like AK. I've had to deal with people wiping to the bee's maybe..8 / 9 times because they go "no just ignore it's how my last party did it!" So..if you don't like speedruns you really have people like yourself to blame. Forcing that kind of dungeon runs on people who are new or don't want to do it. Yes that's what PF is for..but lets be honest if you could speed run there's nothing that would restrict it to being just in party finder.

Speed runs are boring to me, they offer no fun in the game. You just go blind in both eyes or your graphics card explodes lol. Seems like the dev's agree and are going to continue to do it. If you don't like it I suggest you find another game. On the other hand, I do believe you're entitled to have fun in this game, if they happen to put up dungeons again you can speed run i'll end up doing them, I won't have fun but I will do them. Or maybe this game isn't for you and you should quit..I dunno..can't please everyone. Some things you just have to bite the bullet and take. You make this sound like it's a chore, and if something in a video game feels like a chore, equal to going to work and being handed a bunch of stuff you don't want to do..then maybe this game isn't for you. You really don't seem like you're having a fun time in this game. See you in Destiny.

[Delorean]

Majority of people aren't fans of speed running.

the majority of players are also pretty awful

but that really doesn't have anything to do with the fact that players who wish to speed run may not speed run.

or remove things that these speed runners would ignore such as..Bee's. People who want to run through it ignore mechanics and if there happens to be a mechanic that is required to win the run they still try to push through time after time until people quit just like AK. I've had to deal with people wiping to the bee's maybe..8 / 9 times because they go "no just ignore it's how my last party did it!" So..if you don't like speedruns you really have people like yourself to blame.

People ignored Bees because they had the DPS to kill the boss without switching to them. What you have described is someone just being a moron. It is up to the entire party to decide the strategy a group will use, not just a very vocal and expressive player's.

Or you can just simply suck it up..nothing is worse than jumping into a dungeon just for the tank to do a surprise speed run.

You working hard or are you hardly working?