Let Players Speed Run Again

[Ellatrix]

If by default, DF turns into speedruns, then hey, the majority wanted to do speedruns on content that serves no purpose other than to grind through! Typically, people want to do grind content in an efficient manner so that they can get back to the fun things.

Those wanting to fight 1 mob at a time are in the minority, and unfortunately, SE catered to them. Oh well, you can have your 30min baby dungeons, I cap out doing coil/trials anyway so no need to step into it.

[Jinrya-Geki]

...

And here is the person who only read the title and opened their big mouth without reading the posts.

[Leigaon]

And here is the person who only read the title and opened their big mouth without reading the posts.

I read your entire post which was one long crying thread about how you dislike the runs and how you dislike this part of the game. I read about your "drag points" and "absurd HP" I'm not going through pages to find your posts when you don't update your actual to clarify or change anything you decided on later in the thread, it's lazy on both our parts lil lady. I might find one or two but I'm not hunting down every nagging response you decide to have because the game isn't catered to your liking. I'm sorry you're playing a game that has parts in it you don't like and that you have no power to change it, I really am. In other words all you do is complain about how much you dislike this portion of the game..so you should quit or get use to how to do the runs. The sum of your post is "I spend too much time on this game so I need to do everything faster and i'm unhappy."

That's the point of the road blocks is to block the speed run which the OP is unhappy about but isn't going to change anyways.

There is a thing called party finder..so you want to force the people who don't want to speed run to run specifically in party finder? Because if you give the ability to speed run it will become the norm in duty finder, which is exactly what you want..you want to have the speed runs in both party finder and duty finder while the people who want to run things in another way are restricted just to party finder?

They put in effort and they are fun for a lot of people just not you...so...what are you going to do about it then since they aren't going to change it? You're more than welcome to come find me on our server I'll give you a big hug, and will make it all better.

[Jinrya-Geki]

...

I don't force people to do speed runs. I ask if everyone is ok with a speed run before I pull mobs. Your post said it's because of people like me that hurt new players and force people to do speed runs. No, I do not. If someone is new I tell them exactly what's to be expected from each boss. I also pull less if the party asks me to.

While you may not have read the posts through out the thread from page one I made it clear it's the mechanics that annoy me, not the players.

Unfortunately, people only read title and make comments like yours instead of noticing it's not the players I am upset with, it's SEs design in slowing us down intentionally. Bosses should have the interesting mechanics to slow us down, not the trash mobs or running around in the level. Which why I like coil so much. The dungeon running isn't too long, mobs go down fast, and each boss has something interesting to do.

[Kiara]

Hi Jinrya,

I think a fundamental issue you're voicing (indirectly) is that for Dungeons, it's a generally boring, slow, plodding experience for you.

And if you look at it on a high-level it's true:

* Lots of Trash Mobs that give nothing worthwhile.
* Simple mechanics throughout.
* Dungeon Bosses are mildly better (they are getting more interesting in 2.4), but still not as unique as Coil or Primal Extremes.
* Dungeon Treasure Chests are generally worthless for an End Gamer (some turn-in stuff, or a rare Minion but that's so rare it's really not there).


But for many players who DON'T want the stress of End Game / Coil, Dungeons are a way for them to Adventure and get some battles in, without the extreme focus and high-level play needed in End Game.

I think a more fundamental issue is that for Moment-to-Moment Player Combat...

* Final Fantasy XIV is sorely lacking in having an Iterant Gameplay System that keeps players INTERESTED no matter the fight. Something like a True Party Combo System like Triple Techs (CHRONO TRIGGER) or Skillchains (Renkei) in Final Fantasy XI.


While this won't solve everything, having a real Party Combo System means EVERY SINGLE FIGHT (besides super low-level enemies compared to your iLevel) is a new "canvas" for you to see what interesting Party Combos you can pull off.

In Final Fantasy XI, it was a blast to join a new Party (which means players and job combinations that were different from your last one usually), and pulling off a variety of Party Combos (Skillchains) and Magic Bursting them as they pop.

It's one fundamental layer that makes even "boring / standard" fights more FUN and interesting.

You communicate with your new Party members, talking about what Party Combos they wanna try, and as you run a dungeon you time them out and execute.

I know it won't solve everything, but that key piece is sorely missing in XIV.

Besides that, I'd say if they made Dungeons more relevant (in terms of Rewards), with Branching Paths / Side Paths, Environmental Traps / Challenges, etc. that would help as well.

[Leigaon]

The sad fact is just because you don't always force people, doesn't mean others act the same way. You're upset with .S.E but it's because of the players who treated the speed runs to be so mandatory that it actually makes others not want to play is partly why they put in these potholes.

The mechanics set by S.E. are meant to be fun for everyone, at the same time it's feedback such as the constant pressure to speed run and the dislike of speed running from most of the community that brought this attention to S.E. You do say you're not mad at the players, but it trickles down to them and starts with them most of the time so you can't simply not include them.

Think of all the hateful people who just yell and scream at those who didn't perform right because:

* The tank isn't pulling enough mobs or is pulling enough but is dying due to iLV - DPS / Healers quit because they call the tank gimp since they want that tank to pull half the zone for the speed run.

* Healers who let their tanks die because they're busy spamming Holy which causes frustration with players and forces people to quit..making a dungeon raid even longer waiting for another person to pop up.

* DPS who don't know it's going to be a lock out set of mobs for the boss an instead want to take them down..the black mage gets frustrated and doesn't DPS.. or the DPS who goes ahead and pulls because the tank isn't pulling enough, brings the group back to the tank causing the white mage to just spam cure to keep him alive while the poor tank can't keep up.

we can go on for days with the actions that cause speed runs to go bad, people to get upset and eventually cause them to abandon duty or kick a player because they didn't grind Coils to get top gear so they can't get up there..or it's their secondary job that they love but they haven't had the time to gear it up to the other peoples level.

When you say speed runs..these are the things that come to mind. I've done speed runs don't get me wrong when they go flawlessly? I see my tomes go up like crazy and I'm happy but i'm not enjoying the fights. You have a mix and match of what people want. Lets start putting up ways to make what we are given something that's fun for everyone, lets change this from "I want my speed runs" to how we can adjust these runs to make them more fun to where we don't have the slow downs like you said but we don't have the speed run negativitiy..like what Kiara has said above whos is really making me miss my skillchains...now i'm thinking about my pup...kagekyio...i need a tissue.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Alright, I'll step back in then. . . So it's mechanics more so than party/individual ability?

Tell me, what mechanics did Brayflox HM have? Because all I remember is weak, easy to dodge aoes, and an enemy gauntlet.

Let's call it like it is - you don't like dungeons, plain and simple. Or rather you ONLY like dungeons that are plain and simple? I imagine you must not like Coil either? You know, T6 and its forced stops, or T7 and its enemy waves that must be killed before the next wave can spawn. . . Sorry, it's all relative, and if you don't like dungeon mechanics, then you simply don't like dungeons.

And to Ellatrix: I cap just like you do, helping others with "baby dungeons", trials, Coil (any turn, any time), guildhests, and literally anything asked of me where and when I can, and all without the sense of superiority. Though I must say, it does look kinda nice on this high horse of yours.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Oh yeah (can't edit from my phone), I know I'm being snarky in saying so, but it could be said that speed running isn't as possible or easy as before due to the fact that these are no longer "baby" dungeons.

You might ask, "Why ThirdChild, whatever do you mean?" Well, consider the fact that our new Expert dungeons call for an average item level of 80. . . That's higher than the original Turn 4, but below (only slightly below) Turn 5.

I can't say it enough; the bar got raised. The "baby" dungeons grew up some.

[Jinrya-Geki]

....

I like coil. The trash mobs die fast, and getting to the boss is quick. The boss fights have interesting mechanics. I enjoy turn 9 the most. It's not simple tank and spank. It requires a brain.

Turn 7 has pit stops but the mobs die fast so it doesn't bother me. It's quicker to clear turns than it is to clear a new dungeon. That's pretty sad to me. That something deemed easier takes longer.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I like Coil too. I actually LOVE it. It's my most favorite part of the game, so far. And Turns have always been faster to clear than dungeons. You're not there to level or gain XP, no? And the challenge lies not in the length but the MECHANICS, right? Proportionately, they're more akin to guildhests. Which again, really fuels my "Expert Guildhests" idea, especially for the types like yourself that don't mind a challenge, but don't enjoy lengthy instances.



Also, you finally said what might really be the issue here:

I like coil. The trash mobs die fast, and getting to the boss is quick. The boss fights have interesting mechanics. I enjoy turn 9 the most. It's not simple tank and spank. It requires a brain.

Turn 7 has pit stops but the mobs die fast so it doesn't bother me. It's quicker to clear turns than it is to clear a new dungeon. That's pretty sad to me. That something deemed easier takes longer.

Honestly, that really equates to "I don't like dungeons or like lengthy instances. And anything that doesn't die quickly bores me." This isn't me putting words in your mouth, mind you, and please don't take it as such. But the feeling behind many of your posts is that you're bored or bothered by anything that makes a dungeon feel "longer", i.e. mechanics, forced stops, tougher enemies, etc. You like to raid, believe me, I can totally relate. But not everything can be like Coil, or earlier dungeons that were only able to be speedrun because not only were we already WELL overgeared - and without level syncs - but we were only getting even more overgeared then. Why do you think T4 is being farmed now?

Sadly, there are people who are just completely disinterested in raiding/Coil, because it's so "difficult". But they like dungeons. Those same people have caught up to the raiding types in gear levels and maybe skills now, so dungeons have to become more than they were. I can't stress it enough. For you, who may simply not like dungeons, yes, it's an added hassle, and I'm sorry. But not everything can be like Coil, and not everything can be, should be, or be forced to be speedrun.