Let Players Speed Run Again

[Jinrya-Geki]

If your DPS is unable to manage single target damage effectively, I'd call that a bigger problem. Not saying that's the case here, but just putting it in perspective. Also, with regards to the Snowcloak ice wall area, as an interesting inversion of it, it could be said the 1 minute phases of Turn 4 are a "waste" of time. I mean, if the party is good enough, then why not just send them all after you all at once? Same goes for primals and add phases. Going by that logic, those mechanics are a waste of time too.

Yes, they are all waste of time. The difference is all about fun though. My fun is different from your version of fun.

Me having to stop is not fun. Garuda summoning the feather adds doesn't not stop my dps on Garuda though. I flare and burn them all and still do damage to Garuda. But the mechanic of a door staying shut until 2 monster are killed just kill more right after is a waste of time because I can't attack them all at once.

[Brill_]

Speed runners had their chance and they blew it by forcing party they got into to speed run too or they kicked them. If you would have been more tolerant of people that did not want to speed run, people wouldn't have complained so much and you might still be able to speed run.

[SongJoohee]

These dungeons aren't intended to be hard. They serve a few purposes but being hard isn't one of them. Also please remember, these dungeons aren't even intended to be challenged at ilvl 110. The gear we have removes a lot of the challenge, just like in Coil. Second Coil was hard in 90-95 gear, in item level 110? Nope. Same will happen with Final Coil, at the moment it's very challenging and meeting the DPS requirements is rather challenging in 110, in 130 that will be a different story. The same is with the dungeons. Perhaps go and challenge the dungeons in their minimum item levels and see what you think of them then?

Anyway, the purposes of the dungeons at the moment:

1) Easy content for everyone to enjoy without much difficulty
2) Level 50 starter gear for new players/alternative jobs
3) Tomestones

The only thing I dislike about the current system is that to max my Tomestones I don't really have many options. The options I have is either dungeon running or doing Frontlines, the latter of which has horrendous queue times and some changes they made that put me off playing it almost completely. Sure Final Coil gives me 30/turn but that still leaves me with a tonne to gather.

But atleast in the current system, with duty roulette I basically just have to run expert 6/7 days of the week and I will cap my tomestones.

As for the speed running aspect of them, even with the limitations they are insanely fast. If you find them too easy and too limited, push your party more. Drop shield oath/defiance, have your black mages bring ethers for triple flares, have your healers stance dance, heck, if it's so easy, don't even bring a healer, like lucrezia did with Brayflox HM to get a 7:55 speedrun of the entire thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRnkWpx8F3c There's always something you can do to make the dungeon quicker and perhaps more enjoyable to yourself.

[Jinrya-Geki]

...

Yeah, most dungeons are aren't hard, that's the problem. Their mechanics make them slow and boring. I however would like dungeons that take a little more than put "circle shape into circle shape" logic.

Just giving mobs more HP and hitting harder is not a something that challenges the entire party. It needs more battle mechanics, no mechanics that slow you down before each fight.

[Almalexia]

Just giving mobs more HP and hitting harder is not a something that challenges the entire party. It needs more battle mechanics, no mechanics that slow you down before each fight.

Half the fun is speeding in spite of these lockouts. You can't shake a stick at 16m Sastasha when everyone else takes twice as long.

Qarn for example:
1. 3 skeletons + 2 scarabs + facer + ghost.
2. 2 bats + scarab + 2 scarabs + demonsaur: DPS opens the gate to spike trap room.
3. Jump down the hole, get a cure 3 and Medica. Don't need 100% HP to engage boss.
4. 2 scarabs + snake + warden head/hand: DPS should take point to get groped so tank can manage the other mobs.
5. Long tunnel - 2 scarab + snake + facer + 2(3?) scarab + snake: Great place for mage LB.
6. Warden head + 2 hands.
7. Boss.
8. Three raiders: must kill for key.
9. 2 mummies: must kill to open wall.
10. Mummy + 2 skeletons: must kill to open wall.
11. 4 skeletons + 1 golem.
12. Boss

SR isn't throttled until after the second boss, what with small groups in isolated rooms.

Not everything can be Brayflox.

[Leigaon]

Majority of people aren't fans of speed running. You put too much stress on a new player and most of these vets won't listen if they see a new guy who isn't up in iLV to do the spam aoe thing. It didn't use to be like that but because people like the OP forced it on others it became so bad that they've added things to slow you down..or remove things that these speed runners would ignore such as..Bee's. People who want to run through it ignore mechanics and if there happens to be a mechanic that is required to win the run they still try to push through time after time until people quit just like AK. I've had to deal with people wiping to the bee's maybe..8 / 9 times because they go "no just ignore it's how my last party did it!" So..if you don't like speedruns you really have people like yourself to blame. Forcing that kind of dungeon runs on people who are new or don't want to do it. Yes that's what PF is for..but lets be honest if you could speed run there's nothing that would restrict it to being just in party finder.

Speed runs are boring to me, they offer no fun in the game. You just go blind in both eyes or your graphics card explodes lol. Seems like the dev's agree and are going to continue to do it. If you don't like it I suggest you find another game. On the other hand, I do believe you're entitled to have fun in this game, if they happen to put up dungeons again you can speed run i'll end up doing them, I won't have fun but I will do them. Or maybe this game isn't for you and you should quit..I dunno..can't please everyone. Some things you just have to bite the bullet and take. You make this sound like it's a chore, and if something in a video game feels like a chore, equal to going to work and being handed a bunch of stuff you don't want to do..then maybe this game isn't for you. You really don't seem like you're having a fun time in this game. See you in Destiny.

[Delorean]

Majority of people aren't fans of speed running.

the majority of players are also pretty awful

but that really doesn't have anything to do with the fact that players who wish to speed run may not speed run.

or remove things that these speed runners would ignore such as..Bee's. People who want to run through it ignore mechanics and if there happens to be a mechanic that is required to win the run they still try to push through time after time until people quit just like AK. I've had to deal with people wiping to the bee's maybe..8 / 9 times because they go "no just ignore it's how my last party did it!" So..if you don't like speedruns you really have people like yourself to blame.

People ignored Bees because they had the DPS to kill the boss without switching to them. What you have described is someone just being a moron. It is up to the entire party to decide the strategy a group will use, not just a very vocal and expressive player's.

Or you can just simply suck it up..nothing is worse than jumping into a dungeon just for the tank to do a surprise speed run.

You working hard or are you hardly working?

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Never played 1.0's Darkhold so I wasn't aware of that. I like that idea, but timed treasures is neither a new or dealbreaking thing. I personally do love Coil, but I enjoy regular dungeons too. I don't consider them time wasted unless stuck with a bad party, which just happens sometimes.

As for the new dungeons, SE did go the easy route and made things "harder" through higher HP, but think about how much gear and weapons have progressed. Imagine AK without level sync with the gear we have now? We'd shred right through it. As it stands, it's simply a matter of perspective. It's not a challenge to you (by comparison to say, Coil), therefore it's a waste of time. I disagree. The new dungeons suggested item levels are 80 (which is higher than Turn 4, and given how T4 is farmed lately, it shows). I simply see the gap closing. Some might not be ready, and some - like youself - may already be well past it. But with all this nice new gear, if everything was still tuned for i55 with no level sync, THAT might get boring.

[Trixxy]

All I can say is that, although still a chore to be farmed in order to cap out asap, dungeons have gotten a lot more enjoyable. Compare any of the new dungeon with the original halatali for example, they pretty much copy pasted the same trash pull over and over again. Yes that'd let you rush through everything and pull all of them mobs on your way but in the end I actually prefer the variety that snowcloak's giving me. I can still speed run whichever mob there is until the next blockade but at least they'll show me something new right after that instead of yet another trash pull of the exact same dungeon mobs. I believe newer dungeons feel shorter, still take a decent amount of time but without having you fall asleep as you run it and I think that was what the devs were aiming at.

[Laerune]

I am all for everyone plays this game at their own pace etc, but in a mmorpg where majority of the players are using a random tool that brings 4/8/24 random players toghter, this is not possible. Every mmorpg that I have played which offered the option to speed run has always resulted in a stupid debate where players try to enforce each others will on to each other. There is no 'lets play toghter" Its all about "ME,ME,ME,ME, I want to finish this dungeon within 15 minutes so we will finish it within 15 minutes". Just like ThirdChild_ZKI, I too prefer to enjoy the dungeon at a decent pace, I am not going to crawl to the final boss, but I dont want to rush either.

If there is a option to speed run, then members of this community will force it upon each other. Often have I seen high ilevel players rushing the dungeon not knowing that their dps/healer/tank does not have the same ilevel and often they can not handle the content at that pace.

Yesterday I was doing Snowcloak, both dps were not doing alot of damage, but aslong as we were doing 1 pack at the time, we were able to finish the dungeon within 30 minutes. Sadly my tank did not agree with this so, he pulled alot of trash packs at the same time. You can guess what happend next. The mobs did not die fast enough, so the tank started verbaly abusing the dps players, I got out of mana (first time this has happend since Vigil Keep storymode) and we wiped. I am not saying this will always happen, but in all the speed runs that I have witnessed its about someone wanting to rush asap and not about exploring a dungeon with new friends.

This is nothing personal, but the GOGOGOGOGOGO mentality was one of the reasons that I hated World of Warcraft. The fact that alot of players are oke with this playstyle, makes me worry for this community.

Like ThirdChild_ZKI said in his/her previous post, why should Square Enix bother with designing dungeons? Why not just add dungeons with one big white corridor with mobs lined up? I bet you, Square Enix does not mind taking your money for those type of dungeons. This way its going to be a WIN/WIN for Square Enix and the speed runners?