Dragoon, under the shadow of Ninja

[Craiger]

I don't see why DRG is more behind NIN than MNK is to be honest...

DRG deals about ~10% lower dps than MNK, like they have done since 2.1... And DRG balances it up with 10% more damage for the BRD in your group, and higher burst damage. That's perfect balance right there... The problem is Ninja compared to the 2, not just Dragoon.

MNK gives your group slightly higher sustained dps than DRG, and they have better Mantra and Dragon Kick debuff shouldn't be underestimated.

DRG gives your party almost as much sustained dps (with BRD) and makes up for the lower utility with higher burst damage. Should have higher M.Defense though...

NIN gives your party higher sustained dps than both DRG and MNK, because of one ability (Trick Attack), they have very good burst damage and Goad is a very good Utility.

I'm not gonna mention positional differences, because that's irrelevant... DPS isn't determined based on difficulty. DPS should be compared assuming they are played by good players that get everything out of their jobs... If one job does more/less dps because it's harder/easier to play, then all/none of the top players would play that job, cause they know they can get everything out of them. I can play DRG in my sleep and still get good numbers... and I'm no elite player by any means.

They could make Trick Attack give you a 10% damage buff, and a debuff to the enemy that makes everyone in the party do just 2% more damage or something... and it would pretty much balance things out, and it wouldn't decrease NIN's own dps, which I think nobody who plays them wants... Just an example btw.

[ChaozK]

I'm not gonna mention positional differences, because that's irrelevant... DPS isn't determined based on difficulty. DPS should be compared assuming they are played by good players that get everything out of their jobs... If one job does more/less dps because it's harder/easier to play, then all/none of the top players would play that job, cause they know they can get everything out of them.

I agree that balancing around difficulty is a bad thing but positional requierements are more along the lines of cast bars for casters. Meaning they dont make the job more complicated to play but are hindersome when it comes to dealing with mechanics. Its like with BLM vs SMN basically. BLM has a very simple rotation but its cast bars are detrimental when it comes to movement, so it deserves higher base dmg in comparison to BRD or SMN.

Thats actually my main gripe when it comes to MNK/DRG vs NIN. Yes i do think that NIN is more complicated than both MNK and DRG but once you get to the point where you have your rotation down, a NIN will be able to deal much better with movement and mechanics because he has no such class mechanics like positionals or cast bars. So if the base dmg is similar (MNK) or even higher (DRG), NIN will be much better in most fights in practice. Its kinda like the bard of melees.