Dragoon, under the shadow of Ninja

[Spoekes]

the first 3 points indeed are predictable most of the time but the last is real why would you lol at it?

[Maero]

I would not go as far to say that Nin can be unforgiving too.
Mundras if messed up are either the player, or if you do get lag sometimes after a keypress and it does not register or appear to the player will reapply same action because of it and therefore mundra gets messed up. So it's kind of a yes and no situation for that part.
Also if as dragoon you are not in the certain position, dps loss is far more noticeable. Dancing Edge is pretty much the only attack that is positional for Nin.

[ColdestHeaven]

Dancing Edge is pretty much the only attack that is positional for Nin.

It's not. Nothing but a mistake on English client tooltip. Only Trick Attack and Sneak Attack are positional.

[Pluvia]

In all honesty this thread should be called Dragoon, under the shadow of Monk. Oh crap now under the shadow of both monk and ninja but most didn't realize it until ninja came out.
Yes dragoons need a buff but this really has nothing to do with how ninja is its been this way since the warrior and monk buffs and hell most statics I've seen asked why they ran a monk/drg instead of double monks and the usual answer was gear drops. Ninja didn't really cause the problem they just made it more apparent

[Clarkamite]

Don't know if this was touched on at all, I haven't read all the pages, but has anyone discussed TP costs? I don't want to get too in-depth but just looking over skills DRG takes a much larger hit when it comes to TP cost. Yes they get that extra TP from Invigorate but I don't know how well that actually makes up for it.

I don't have a DRG to 50 so I can't say for sure but it seems to me when the potency of most of their attacks (not counting their basic 1-2-3 combo) is lower than that of NIN's but also costs more TP to use that seems like it would be a loss. I declared NIN as an alt for FCOB and previously had MNK as mine. MNK blows through TP but on my NIN I feel like I could just DPS for days. Anyone care to weigh in on this? DRG's TP cost to DPS ratio too high?

[Dragoon92]

Don't know if this was touched on at all, I haven't read all the pages, but has anyone discussed TP costs? I don't want to get too in-depth but just looking over skills DRG takes a much larger hit when it comes to TP cost. Yes they get that extra TP from Invigorate but I don't know how well that actually makes up for it.

I don't have a DRG to 50 so I can't say for sure but it seems to me when the potency of most of their attacks (not counting their basic 1-2-3 combo) is lower than that of NIN's but also costs more TP to use that seems like it would be a loss. I declared NIN as an alt for FCOB and previously had MNK as mine. MNK blows through TP but on my NIN I feel like I could just DPS for days. Anyone care to weigh in on this? DRG's TP cost to DPS ratio too high?

Dragoon's really don't have a problem with TP, that extra 100 TP from their trait really helps on that matter even if their skills cost 10 TP more then a Monk or Ninja, Also ninja and monk both get a Skill Speed buff where as dragoon doesn't. I can go though T8 spamming my WS as fast as i could, but i have never had a problem with TP.

[Lemage]

I will always prefer a Monk + Dragoon over a Ninja for Melee composition in my groups, I find Dragoons & Monks to be more reliable than a Ninja (Longer time to get used to the class) and I usually just block off the Ninja slot on party finder because the Dragoon buff to Bard damage, and Dragoon + Monk melee damage is fine and not harming anyone in my groups.
This is from a Tank POV btw.

[Keisatsu]

I will always prefer a Monk + Dragoon over a Ninja for Melee composition in my groups, I find Dragoons & Monks to be more reliable than a Ninja (Longer time to get used to the class) and I usually just block off the Ninja slot on party finder because the Dragoon buff to Bard damage, and Dragoon + Monk melee damage is fine and not harming anyone in my groups.
This is from a Tank POV btw.

Honestly I'd do the same but then you kind of remember "Trick Attack exists" and that it's a buff to EVERYONE's dmg, not just a Dragoon and a Bard but to the casters, monks, tanks and the healers if they go Cleric Stance.
Also can't forget about Dancing Edge which is an increase in damage to Ninja's, Paladin's and Warrior's (Though arguably in the perfect world the Warrior should be applying this with maim and the Ninja should be doing Aeolian Edge instead.)

[RiceisNice]

...

Considering trick attack, and the liability of some encounters just not cooperating with the DRG (whether it be magic damage or the bosses turning around), a NIN provides much better utility, consistency and reliability than a DRG. You also mentioned your personal experience with them being more reliable (since they've been out longer)...so now you're introducing individual player skill which doesn't really hold much water in comparisons.

As a bard, I am also somewhat aggravated by the lack of good DRG players that cannot apply do their full impulse drive combo on the kraken... Something something about running like a headless chicken to hit a tentacle or something...

And to add onto your examples;
>If you stack on Qarn (Heroic)'s final boss, it still doesn't change the fact that it randomly picks out a player. If you stack on the DRG, you'd still need to run behind him to get a back-hit, assuming the doesn't immediately turn around. There's also the factor of standing in that position is safe at all with the mummies appearing.

And even if everything goes fine and dandy, you have a DRG that needs to jump through all these hoops, to deal relatively the same dps (if not less) than a NIN, while lacking the same survivability at the abundance of magic AoE in boss encounters (esp final coil) and arguably less utility...it just doesn't add up right.