Myth Message being used to excluded players

[Ellatrix]

I simply posted that as a very obvious counter to being accused I got carried to where I am. I could have posted that I'm one of 8 people on the server with a Louisoix minion too, but I'm not sure everyone knows where that's from.

My argument is that if you haven't yet cleared content you shouldn't be joining farm parties. If you want to clear content bad enough, and your group is holding you back, then you have to choose between one or the other. A driven player will find a way to clear.

I spent over 30hrs in 2.0 joining and forming shout parties to challenge T5. Eventually, by networking with other players who did well, I cleared it in a pug. Then I built my own static, with 7 other people who had no clear yet, spent a week training them and then I had a static capable of clearing T5. So no, I don't need your lecture; I've been there before. I never expect more of someone else that I cannot do or have not done myself.

This is why linkshells exist. And why you want to keep networking with players, and playing with a group to progress together. The stuff that takes weeks to learn is where you slap on the 'multiple previous clears only' when you just want to farm. The only reason I bring in the past escapades of people arguing against me is because you don't seem to understand the time investment involved to get to the point where you can reliably farm the harder content in the game, since you have not chosen to challenge it yet. I have no reason to take a gamble on someone when the party will fill in <10min anyway with people meeting my requirements.

I farmed every Coil1 drop, have over 80% of Coil2 drops, and every primal drop (minus some useless Ramuh/Shiva weapons). My experience in farming content far surpasses the sum total of the people who are arguing against me. I've tried different approaches and found what works best in building a party that can reliably kill the thing and get loot - which is the core purpose of a farm party.

If I want to do a thing and there's no relevant PF up, I make my own.

[Ayanno]

I'm going to add a couple things to this stigma that some seem to have regarding the 100 tome message and being incapable of clearing content:

#1- In a Garuda EX farm party last week(going for ponies that don't exist) we enter and the message pops up. Now, normally I don't care if someone is brand new to a fight, we all start some where. Anyways, I asked who hadn't cleared and the healer piped up saying she hadn't yet cleared it. Since it was a farm party on easy content, I said let's give it one shot. We wiped the first try....but not because of the healer. Second attempt and we cleared. Had that message not shown, I never would have known that healer didn't already have that clear. She played flawlessly.

#2- I've been df'ing Titan EX for months attempting to get the clear, so much so that I know the entire fight, yet hadn't cleared it. 5% wipes on several occasions. Finally, I put it up in PF demanding that if someone wasn't 100% capable of clearing it, to not bother joining. It took a few attempts, but I finally got my clear. As a tank. I'd like to believe that had the rest of that clear party(bunch of SCoB folks, from the gear I saw) that had they not known before hand I didn't have the clear, they simply would've thought I'd cleared it many times before.

Also on Titan EX, there was a healer in one attempt a couple days prior that couldn't survive anything, plumes, landslides, sneezes whatever. He. Died. All. The. Time. Guess what? He had the clear for Titan, he even mentioned that it was possible to clear it with one healer because "he was dead his entire clear run".

You wouldn't get the message for that always-dead healer, but you would get the message for my-always last alive tank.

Just because that message pops up doesn't mean someone isn't capable of performing flawlessly and clearing the content. It just means that, for whatever reason, they have yet to do so, it is in no way on indication of skill.

[dspguy]

They should remove the myth message. I've been on both sides of it. I've been the guy needing the clear who has had experience but just not a group of 7 other people capable and I've been the experienced player with the clear helping out the guy needing the clear. In both cases, the people with clear experience can/have caused just as many wipes as the "new guy."

Prior to the "myth message" showing up, if someone messed up too many times, they'd get kicked. The same would hold true now. I'd still kick someone with clear experience if they joined a farm PT and made too many mistakes.

They should just get rid of the message entirely. It helps no one.

[Snugglebutt]

If agree with any of us who said the soldiery notification at start of dungeon, trial or raid runs is being misused whether misused in DF or PF (even if do not agree 100% with everything being said about it but agree on principle) then click on "like" here.

[LunarEmerald]

I can't believe people are defending joining farm parties without a clear. Yes, it's possible you are an expert and can farm it with the right group. But let's be real: that's a very low possibility. You need to have some kind of proof you're capable and not having the solidery message is the easiest proof to have. Otherwise you are a risk and liability. Yes, having a clear doesn't mean you're an expert but it's a much safer bet.

[AiChyan]

I can't believe people are defending joining farm parties without a clear. Yes, it's possible you are an expert and can farm it with the right group. But let's be real: that's a very low possibility. You need to have some kind of proof you're capable and not having the solidery message is the easiest proof to have. Otherwise you are a risk and liability. Yes, having a clear doesn't mean you're an expert but it's a much safer bet.

It is mind blowing. Last week I created a farm party on PF for T6. Upon joining we saw a soldiery message. I asked who was new, and there was silence. Clearers showed their high allagan gears or said to check their lodestone profiles. Someone suggested we should just go on ahead and try.
New person had us get devoured every single time. Two wipes later, we knew this was no longer a farm party and we disbanded.
Now I wish I blacklisted him.
The message just has to stay, breaking party rules to effectively get a carry is wrong. If someone thinks they are so good for reaching ~last phase~ then they should create their own clear party and not ride on coattails of farmers.

[Krr]

The message just has to stay, breaking party rules to effectively get a carry is wrong.

There are no other ways to check for player competency or a clear?

If a party leader is too lazy to inspect their own party, they deserve what they get. Back in the "Before-WoW-was-garbage" days good pug raiders were inspecting gear for accuracy caps and proper gemming, grilling shaky-but-bright looking newcomers on their fight experience, and if we *absolutely needed a clear* you took your own damn time out to armory the kid and check their achievement.

But, I mean, keep letting the 250DPS DRG into your groups because his FC carried him or he had a million gil lying around. Again, uou deserve what you get when your only means of screening is a cheevo.

You don't need a no-100-soldiery rule. You need a "fail = kick" rule.

[AiChyan]

You don't need a no-100-soldiery rule. You need a "fail = kick" rule.

I need both.
It was admittedly my fault for believing that I should give this newbie a chance, so my lesson was learned and I did implement stricter rules on my next PF.

[Edeline]

There are no other ways to check for player competency or a clear?

Giving how easy to get full i110 without stepping into coil, and i120 pieces since 2.4... How do you check someone who you already see it's geared (but never played with) and has achievement locked on lodestone? You either let them join hoping for the best or kick them if you're not confident enough, and the latter would generate more rage on this "discrimination" complaint going on.

Just gotta deal with it. It's a fact that many many people sneak into FARM recruits to get clears and people expecting smooth runs to farm several runs, and instead they keep wiping for an hour or more because that "experienced" players clearly doesn't know the (not so much anymore) unforgiving mechanics. Can't blame players that want to FARM content they already learnt before, and can't blame them for wanting smooth runs and not wasting their time on liars.

[Brill_]

You need a "fail = kick" rule.

That's just as stupid. We are all human, we all make mistakes. None of us are perfect. Peyton Manning doesn't complete 100% of his passes. Lebron James doesn't make 100% of his shots. Mistakes can happen no matter how experienced one is.

The elitists intolerance of failure in this game is stupid. If you don't accept random results, don't play with random people.

They should make a server for all the elitists to join. Then that way they complete every run on the first try and NEVER die.