DRG has been broken for far too long. Fix it SE

[Kazumac]

I don't feel it is a rework needed but a buff to DPS ala the BLM buff a few months back. A rework to change the mechanics isn't necessary but they do need to be brought closer in line with what other melee dps are capable of doing.

[Aana]

Less QQ more pew pew.

People talk about theoretical caps and server 1st progression groups as if it impacts their gameplay. Drg is fine for anyone who actually posts on these forums. And please tell me where these spinning like a top raid bosses are? If you can't land 5 positional moves a minute then you don't know the fight well enough or your tank is trolling you. Raid bosses only turn at specific times to do specific moves. The rest is locked onto the tank. These fights are robotic ally scripted and 100% predictable and telegraphed. You missed positionals? learn the fight. You die from jump lock? Learn the fight. Every job has to learn every fight to stay optimal and deal with their specific issues. So does drg. Get over it.

[Sentinillia]

And please tell me where these spinning like a top raid bosses are?

Here
they
are.

[Aana]

Here
they
are.

T7. Turns on a scripted timer to perform a move in her rotation. If you learn the fight you learn when she turns and if there's only 2 ranged you know where she will turn on top of that. Try agai.

T9 turns to jump at pre scripted intervals. Learn fight. Try again.

T11. I don't have any personal experience or really researched the fight but I strongly suspect it is the same as EVERY OTHER FIGHT IN THE GAME in that any boss movements are highly scripted or triggered and therefore predictable. If you can't land positionals YOU need to fix it by anticipating monster movements in a pre scripted fight.

[Sleigh]

T7. Turns on a scripted timer to perform a move in her rotation. If you learn the fight you learn when she turns and if there's only 2 ranged you know where she will turn on top of that. Try agai.

T9 turns to jump at pre scripted intervals. Learn fight. Try again.

T11. I don't have any personal experience or really researched the fight but I strongly suspect it is the same as EVERY OTHER FIGHT IN THE GAME in that any boss movements are highly scripted or triggered and therefore predictable. If you can't land positionals YOU need to fix it by anticipating monster movements in a pre scripted fight.

Less than boss turning, more about mechanics which force certain positioning.

T9: you have to stack for fireballs potentially twice each element phase for roughly 1-2 GCDs, and very likely you will have to skip at least one if not a few positionals during this. Also if your other melee is Thunderstruck, or if your group's strategy is to place Thunderstrucks behind the boss, you're missing rear positionals there.
T10: certain mechanics make you specifically spread out or bring a tether into the center. With another melee your space is limited and you're going to miss some positionals here and there for a couple GCDs.
T11: in the final phase you get tethered to your partner and failure to stay very, very close to him while not getting at all near the other set of tethers will result in death, not only for you but possibly the other tether set. Due to both tether sets having to stay directly next to the boss, rear positionals or flank positionals are forbidden for a large chunk of this time depending on which two sets get tethered. You also are forced to dodge meticulously during this time, sometimes to the front or sometimes the back of the boss, further complicating the situation.

T12's fine for DRG luckily, semi-training dummy with dodging of phoenix charges here or there. T13 I haven't done much but seems fine.

I don't think anyone's saying DRG can't do well in turns such as these, they certainly can do fine, but the fact is, within the melee classes, DRG is punished far far harder for missing the average positional, with less payoff for hitting every single one (which as stated above is simply not in the cards)

[Dragoonite]

lots of big strong words

You realize that foresight, prediction, and anticipating movement before hitting attacks is already more work than what's forced upon for Ninjas, and to some extent Monks.
Delaying your positional attacks to account for movement is a DPS loss in itself because of how much following the strict rotation is important and is one of the reasons Dragoon requires perfect psychic-tier play with the least rewarding output.

There's no point in saying "learn the fight" if your overall output for pristine play, let alone less than perfect play, is always going to be at or below par.

In addition: The fact that Monks can ignore some movement mechanics and use non-optimal positions more without fear of breaking/losing flow and still pull numbers at or around a Dragoon playing optimally (and nothing can even be said for Ninja who fears no positional requirements) is why the job is flawed.


It's literally the same as telling a BLM to "learn the fight" as to when to use spells, when to break spells, and when to dodge. Is it optimal? Yes. Is it advised? Yes.
Is it in any way balanced in comparison to your fellow Caster? Not even close.

[Sleigh]

It's literally the same as telling a BLM to "learn the fight" as to when to use spells, when to break spells, and when to dodge. Is it optimal? Yes. Is it advised? Yes.
Is it in any way balanced in comparison to your fellow Caster? Not even close.

Well the difference there is BLM can beat SMN (I assume you're referring to SMN when you say fellow Caster) if you play well, Fireweaving, using Swiftcast well, storing procs, using Aetherial Manipulation, using the shielding skills to mitigate force movement. BLM has higher raw damage so if you can bring it out more you can compete or beat SMN in actual, movement heavy fights, even if by default SMN is designed well for them and BLM is at the core designed against them.

In 2.2, this was not the case. SMN won on a dummy and especially in a real fight. Luckily they adjusted this so BLM only wins on a dummy fight, and it could go either way based on the mechanics and number of multi-DoT/AoE situations in a fight. They HAD to put BLM's DPS roof above SMN to compensate for movement or they would have had to change the core of BLM, and the way they went was fine.

Right now DRG vs NIN/MNK, it's kinda like the 2.2 BLM vs SMN situation: less max DPS roof from DRG (counting BRD buff DPS), and requires far more work to be near max than its melee brothers. When DRG loses in dummy fights and in most real fights there's a problem.

[Mercer_Keel]

all this does is remind me of ffxi back in the day with no one wanting a loldrg in pt before the two hander update. Right now no one knows what is going to happen once the lvl cap is raised and what job will be on top.

[PArcher]

Hopefully the devs are watching FCoB groups and what's going on, and with 2.45 DRG get a buff to help them out

[Kiara]

To: Yoshi P and the Dev Team,

I agree with the Original Post and sentiments in this thread as well. I don't even play Dragoon and I see the unbalance and bias against Dragoons in various Coil Parties already.

Yoshi P, you claimed the reason you wanted to simplify and dumb down XIV 2.0 (including removing the Elemental Wheel and minimizing various secondary Stats was to ensure "Balance"). You keep mentioning not wanting various Jobs to be left out, and yet ironically here we are, and...

We have Job Imbalance (again).

Please make an adjustment to Dragoons to improve their desirability for End Game.

There are great suggestions here already, such as Chaos Thrust tweaks, or heck, giving them much higher Magic Defense (as a trade-off for Positional requirements), or if you insist on the Lowest Magic Defense in the game, then give them the Highest DPS to compensate.

It's like you gave them HALF of the "Glass Cannon"-stereotype (paper thin defense), but didn't give them the "Cannon" portion (highest DPS) to balance it out.

Thanks.