Can we have challenging and rewarding 4 man content, please?

[Prototype909]

The problem is that if you make anything that isn't Coil non-faceroll people will complain it's in-accessible and that you're locking content away from the playerbase, even if it's vanity.

And if you put gear that's higher than the current iLevel trends you let players gear up too quickly which is exactly what 4 mans being irrelevant and the 50 lockouts are supposed to stop you from doing.

[Nestama]

And if you put gear that's higher than the current iLevel trends you let players gear up too quickly which is exactly what 4 mans being irrelevant and the 50 lockouts are supposed to stop you from doing.

Which is why I said 5-20% chance of dropping. Also, i115 is less than i120 (so Poetics > Dungeon, but you're still gearing up, thus progression) and since chances are the last CT dungeon will drop i120 gear... where's the problem? Also, again, the i125 weapons would have a 5% drop and a lockout. Depending on how lucky you are, you might get the weapon instantly or never see one for a week-month.

Heck, SE could just release "Savage mode" of the current level 50 dungeons (while releasing the new "casual" dungeons that will probably drop i100 gear in 2.5). Savage meaning that the dungeons will have the same lore, but will have different mechanics for bosses to make them challenging. Could even include a random "dungeon quest" of sorts. Kill X amount of enemies before finishing the dungeon. Defeat {boss} in X minutes. Do not get KO'd. Complete the quest and you're rewarded with more gil and Soldiery.

[Prototype909]

Which is why I said 5-20% chance of dropping. Also, i115 is less than i120 (so Poetics > Dungeon, but you're still gearing up, thus progression) and since chances are the last CT dungeon will drop i120 gear... where's the problem? Also, again, the i125 weapons would have a 5% drop and a lockout. Depending on how lucky you are, you might get the weapon instantly or never see one for a week-month.

It doesn't matter how low the drop rate is, people would farm it because once you're done with your cap or you run into a wall in Coil there's nothing else to spend your time on anyways. There's a reason SE has made sure that 4 mans have dropped garbage even though the "problem" is obvious to anyone who has been level 50 since 2.1. They don't care if they don't drop anything relevant because they don't want anything to be relevant outside of their "Coil >(=) Upgraded Tome > Base tome = CT on Time Delay > Old content" system.

I'd love to see them implement something like this because it's similar to what FF XI did a layer of its end-game with Rem's Chapters (Fights ranging from Very Easy to Very Hard with layered rewards that increase in type and number as you go up in difficulty) but they've just shown such a lack of ability or desire to do anything that would make dungeons anything more than "Here's where you get your tomes (And as of 2.4, not even vanity is present since it's all recycled gear this time)". Honestly that's my biggest problem with this game, that Coil is the end goal and everything else has to be warped around "This is how you transition to Coil, this is how you make Coil easier, this is to help you catch up to Coil after X amount of time". It just warps the entire focus of the game into a single set of instances rather than even attempting to make a majority of the fights worthwhile to people who are progression focused.

[Themis]

I'd love to see them implement something like this because it's similar to what FF XI did a layer of its end-game with Rem's Chapters (Fights ranging from Very Easy to Very Hard with layered rewards that increase in type and number as you go up in difficulty) but they've just shown such a lack of ability or desire to do anything that would make dungeons anything more than "Here's where you get your tomes (And as of 2.4, not even vanity is present since it's all recycled gear this time)".Honestly that's my biggest problem with this game, that Coil is the end goal and everything else has to be warped around "This is how you transition to Coil, this is how you make Coil easier, this is to help you catch up to Coil after X amount of time". It just warps the entire focus of the game into a single set of instances rather than even attempting to make a majority of the fights worthwhile to people who are progression focused.

I don't think it is a "lack of ability or desire" to do something different. The current plan for content design for all of 2.x was already decided before 2.0 was even released (it's been said many times). Which would mean that development on the content was likely also started a long time before the patch is actually released (but not finished/fine tuned/bug fixed etc until close to release time). A lot of the design appears, to me, to assume that each patch will bring in new players. And "new players" include those new to MMOs and those new to games in general. For them, the content and 4-man dungeons are far less irrelevant than those who are at a higher gear level and have been playing since day 1 (or from an earlier patch). And then you had something like Hunts which, during 2.3, completely broke the plan of progression because people simply zerged for seals and got to i110 far faster than desired.

But it does really on affect those who are more progression focused than those are not. I enjoy doing the 4 man dungeons because they are quite casual and straight forward, and not always do I want some high skill demanding content. I couldn't really care what iLevel the gear rewards are. But then, I'm not the kind of person who is focused heavily on high end content and don't feel a need to keep seeing my iLevel increase in order to enjoy the game.

[Sapphic]

It doesn't matter how low the drop rate is, people would farm it because once you're done with your cap or you run into a wall in Coil there's nothing else to spend your time on anyways.

Then proceed to come to the forums and complain the drop rate is too low :P

[jars]

remember pharos sirius? difficult 4 man instances don't go over well

[Riepah]

remember pharos sirius? difficult 4 man instances don't go over well

If you read two posts before yours you'd see that, yes, we do remember Pharos Sirius. The reason it didn't go over well was because the rewards it gave was the same junk you got from the easier dungeons implemented in the same patch, and it was put in the same roulette as well. How many people would do coil if the rewards it gave were garbage?

It is an unfortunate but undeniable truth that people in MMOs want a carrot on a stick to chase. If that carrot is months old and rotten, there's not much incentive to chase it.

[jars]

If you read two posts before yours you'd see that, yes, we do remember Pharos Sirius. The reason it didn't go over well was because the rewards it gave was the same junk you got from the easier dungeons implemented in the same patch, and it was put in the same roulette as well. How many people would do coil if the rewards it gave were garbage?

It is an unfortunate but undeniable truth that people in MMOs want a carrot on a stick to chase. If that carrot is months old and rotten, there's not much incentive to chase it.

so what exactly do you want it to give? it already gives tomes, which are the next best thing besides raid gear. if you want a 4 man to give gear on par with coil then tough luck, SE doesn't want to do that.

PS is literally exactly what you asked for. everyone hated it.

[Dwill]

PS is literally exactly what you asked for. everyone hated it.

Everyone that couldn't stop tunnel visioning hated it*.

The encounters were still easy if you stopped zerging them and payed attention for 2 seconds to the mechanics.

[Nestama]

so what exactly do you want it to give? it already gives tomes, which are the next best thing besides raid gear.

i75 gear would have been nice. Better than Philosophy, but still lower than the Labyrinth of the Ancients i80 gear.

I loved Pharos Sirius 2.1 and I loved teaching players the mechanics of the fights. I always ran as SCH and 100% of the time, we would always beat the dungeon, because people listened and knew what to do. My only complaint was that it needed better rewards.