Coil 5 changes needed

[Snugglebutt]

I'll agree to disagree. On pretty much all of that. Like I said, I generally agree with you on opening it up, however I think you're underestimating this a bit. Best of luck.

Fair enough I will agree to disagree but I will just add one thing and that is it just seems to me that your against the idea of opening it up now as opposed to later out of spite or ego in the sense just because you do not think they can do it you do not want to give them the opportunity or chance to even try to prove that they can indeed do so despite your disbelief. It could be that it was not your intention to come across that way...but you are coming across that way to me.

Opening it up now after final coil came out would do nothing to stop you doing it the way you currently do, it would just give others the opportunity to do it a different way on old content in an effort to potentially catch up just like SE has done with a lot of older raid content I mentioned above. I kind of take issue with this mentality of just because you think others cannot do something differently than how you do it, that it should mean they are not allowed to try or even not allowed to try until you decide they might succeed...if everyone in the world thought that way we would still be living in caves bashing each other over the head with rocks and grunting to communicate. We advanced because people did what other people previously thought was not possible.

SE should open it up (2nd coil which is old content now that final coil is out) and let people try doing through DF without full group restriction, yes they may fail but they might also succeed and will not know until they try. I also take issue with SE not doing so with patch 2.4 in the sense they are doing the same thing for potentially the same bad reasoning as yourself. It is one thing to keep a restriction on new content because want to preserve the egos of those who claim to be hardcore but it is another to keep that restriction on old content after new content has been made available for the hardcore to do (their egos intact) just because they do not think people 'can' do it. Fact is will not know if they can unless allow them the chance to try.

[Clavaat]

Fair enough I will agree to disagree but I will just add one thing and that is it just seems to me that your against the idea of opening it up now as opposed to later out of spite or ego in the sense just because you do not think they can do it you do not want to give them the opportunity or chance to even try to prove that they can indeed do so despite your disbelief. It could be that it was not your intention to come across that way...but you are coming across that way to me.

Not my intention. I think the way you prove that you can do it is by practicing with people you know well, that's all. The fights themselves have mechanics that are more unforgiving and difficult to understand fully, especially given that timing of bosses' abilities are very important. I'm not a pro by any stretch of the imagination, but the entirety of T6-9 is much more complex to T5 imo. (ok, maybe not T8 so much, but still)

[Lord_Zlatan]

in general response to the comments about one person causing a wipe...

This is a statement that people like to drop into their arguments to reinforce that putting a party of people together falls apart after one wipe... So i guess no one has ever recovered from botched mechanics or positioning... I guess no one has recovered from a tank and healer dying in T6, leaving a summoner to res, a whm to heal, while the PLD goes invincible. These things never happen. Everything always follows the same exact script or no one clears anything. What?

[NolLacnala]

Turn 5 would be one of the cases where "less is more"
Fewer people would mean Fireballs and Conflags being more predictable, fewer targets for Divebombs, less chance of someone setting off a Twister, and less variance on who gets targeted for Liquid and Hatch
Enemy health and damage output would need to be adjusted down a little to make up for half party size

[Ellatrix]

Turn 5 would be one of the cases where "less is more"
Fewer people would mean Fireballs and Conflags being more predictable, fewer targets for Divebombs, less chance of someone setting off a Twister, and less variance on who gets targeted for Liquid and Hatch
Enemy health and damage output would need to be adjusted down a little to make up for half party size

It's because it's an 8man raid that makes it ridiculously easy to recover from almost anything even if half the party dies as there is no extra penalty for dying. 4man raid, tank or healer dies? Game over 99% of the time.

[Morningstar1337]

We implement Coil (StoryMode):

The basic gist of it is:

• A party ranging from 4-8 go though the Coil all, 13 turns, but nerfed.
• Once you clear turn on Easy Difficulty, you cannot go back to that difficulty. Meaning that you have to repeat Coil on its current difficulty
• T5, 9 and 13 will have less phases, like how the Primals have less phases on storymode than hardmode, and less phases in HM than Extreme
• You do not get Gear from the easy version. You have to do Coil normal mode for it. You may have a chance of getting mats like the ADS frame though.
• The only achievements you get are from mapping the turns and clearing subplot. You will not get achievements for clearing the nerfed turns
• A slight change, Turn 13 will be placed in the trial tab for both modes (But will not be added to roulettes unless they are for raids). This is more because I see T13 as more of a trial in terms of presentation (start directly at the boss arena, primal battle. etc). Same goes for turn 12.
• Turn 13 and maybe 12 May or may not be the exception to the nerfs.
• Once you beat Coil on Normal difficulty you have the option to go back to Easy mode, but you still will not get gear or achievements for beating them (harder difficulties still have to be unlocked)
• To add incentive for doing NM coil you will get a chance at new mounts. As well as random chance at Higher than usual iLevel gear

That way, those that are in it for the lore and the story can actualy find out what happens while those that are raiding still have to do normal difficulty for their e-peen and gear what do you think?

[Tiggy]

Stuff

No....If we keep making the game easier it will just get harder and harder to find decent enough players to even beat Ex primals. Just making it easy so people can see the story does have negative effects on the game. All those people who pushed and did eventually beat it got better at the game. They learned their class or improved their damage or whatever it may be. The moment you give people a super easy way to consume the content is the moment you stop giving people incentives to improve. It's not just as simple as letting some people see the story. It's actively dumbing down the game as a whole and decreasing the skill of the population as a whole. There are at least a dozen people in my FC alone that would never have beaten T5 and beyond and wouldn't be where they are today if your story mode existed. They normally aren't those kinds of players that want to tackle harder content, but eventually they were convinced to do so by the story and gear. Story mode literally would have had a negative effect on my FC.

Also, if such a thing did exist it shouldn't give you anything at all but the cutscenes. No achievements even for mapping. No loot. No titles. No anything.

[Morningstar1337]

snip

Fair enough. I think the problem is longevity. Is XIV lasts as long as XI did then odds are that people who will want to do coil will in an extreme minoty who will have to face longer (longer that DPS in 2.4's launch) queues. Om the other hand people are already so burned by Hunts, Housing and general being the Final Fantasy Fanbase that I think the playerbase here is as polarized as Democrats and Republicans (or in a closer analogy, SJWs and GamerGate)

Then again This begs the question on whether or not Coil Shoudn't be in the DF at all.

That reminds me, did SE actualy say something about implimenting a Stroy mode for Coil or is what we have now it?

[saber_alter]

did coil in duty finder in DF a few days ago. consistently got to twister phase, despite having no casters.

it is doable in DF, but it does require a degree of luck in getting people who have experience in the df random roll.

[Megumino2]

Are english servers that bad? DF T5 cople time, with more clears than fails, on JP servers