Climbing & Swimming

[RyujinUzikin]

I was surprised when I first got into this game how I couldn't swim, this is just one of those things that need to come from launch, this is just sad.

[Kingmanath]

Or it could be an hability related to a job : when we want to fish we could swin and go under the sea to find a famous fish ^^

[LineageRazor]

The trouble with swimming, is that you have to pretty much arbitrarily designate areas you CAN'T swim to. A lot of the zones border oceans or large lakes. In theory, you should be able to keep swimming for hours, because these bodies of water are freaking big. Exploring areas like that would either be pointless, frustrating, or both - not to mention that if SE actually rendered these huge ocean areas, that'd be a whole lot of wasted resources.

So, SE would need to create boundaries to keep people from swimming too far. How would this be done? You could arbitrarily set invisible walls, but that is immersion-breaking. Boundaries on land can be excused by setting up steep cliffs or chasms (my character won't go further because it's too steep to climb!), but that's tougher to do in the water (my character can't go further because... well... the water is really, really hard for some reason!).

[Ditto]

The trouble with swimming, is that you have to pretty much arbitrarily designate areas you CAN'T swim to. A lot of the zones border oceans or large lakes. In theory, you should be able to keep swimming for hours, because these bodies of water are freaking big. Exploring areas like that would either be pointless, frustrating, or both - not to mention that if SE actually rendered these huge ocean areas, that'd be a whole lot of wasted resources.

So, SE would need to create boundaries to keep people from swimming too far. How would this be done? You could arbitrarily set invisible walls, but that is immersion-breaking. Boundaries on land can be excused by setting up steep cliffs or chasms (my character won't go further because it's too steep to climb!), but that's tougher to do in the water (my character can't go further because... well... the water is really, really hard for some reason!).

I'm honestly tired of seeing people use the words "Immersion breaking" as excuses for things.

Because the current invisible walls everywhere are not, right? Whats even more immersion breaking is how you cannot go beyond ankle deep water. I, and I'm sure many, would much rather have invisible walls placed to create limits in large bodies of water, as long as you could swim in them, than have them gate anything that's beyond ankle deep.

[LineageRazor]

Because the current invisible walls everywhere are not, right?

I never said, or even implied that. The current invisible walls ARE obnoxious. I'm annoyed every time I run into one. Fortunately, though, they are rare and hard to run into during normal gameplay. It's unusual in this game that your progress is blocked by something you could easily jump over or by a slope that you could normally scale. Usually a blockage is clearly a wall or sheer cliff, or deep chasm with no visible bottom, where it makes sense that your character would not proceed further. Invisible walls in the water would not be rare or hard to run into. They'd be all over the place.

A game needs to be built from the ground up to accomodate something like swimming or flight. WoW was. This game clearly was not. It's not something you can easily shoehorn in later with any kind of grace. I expect folks who are excited about the upcoming "flying mounts" to be sorely disappointed - they will either be restricted to very limited areas, or available in all areas but restricted in other ways.

Swimming, if ever added, will likely be similar. Maybe there will be dungeons where swimming is a mechanic, but I will be highly surprised if players will ever be able to dive off the coast of Costa Del Sol for some fun in the sun.

My expectations, both for the upcoming flying mounts and the hinted swimming, are pretty much in the gutter. Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised with something of actual substance, but true flying mounts and free swimming would require an overhaul of the game as radical as the change from original release to ARR. I'm pretty sure that's something SE would never contemplate - at least, not for the simple reason that some players wanna swim and fly freely. If SE DOES introduce true flying mounts, then my expectations for swimming will likely do a 180. We'll find out next year!

[MageBlack]

-snip-

Immersion solved by permadeath from drowning, falling, or being swept out to sea. But fireballs, magical teleports, elves, and talking animals are ok, just don't put an invisible barrier in a video game cause its never happened before.

Here's a game for you!

[Alukah]

...

IIRC GW2 uses a "fast current" excuse to set water zone limits, when you go near a zone limit you get a warning telling you why you can't go past the invisible wall, and it actually pushes you back if you keep swimming that way. In the end no swimming is more immersion breaking than an invisible wall.

[MageBlack]

I seem to recall them having a choice to add swimming or flying with the first expansion. They chose Flying first (if you got to see any of the fanfest stuff, i nerdgasamed). Next will be swimming, probably have to wait for 4.0 for that one. As for climbing, havent heard them talk about this at all. It would be neat but I think you would be limited to what you can climb. specific wall textures, ladders, etc. It would be neat but I don't think climbing would be too high on a priority list. I'm just thankful we can jump now...

EDIT:

As for those who claim swimming and underwater battles and holding breath breaks immersion. it is easily remedied as they have in many other Final Fantasies, with an Item. FF1 had Oxyale you got from freeing a fairy, FFX had almost all residents able to swim and fight underwater, never broke immersion (yuna's voice acting did that for me... lol) They even had one of the more requested minigames for this FF, Blitzball! I never did like blitzball but I would support it for those who did enjoy it. As for barriers underwater, going into deep ocean could sweep you away back to a particular point. you could ride currents of water for "fast travel" underwater, or those currents could flat out prevent you from going further. Get iron boots do you sink to the bottom. Not all underwater content needs have you submersed in water, underwater caverns are a great place to have a instanced dungeon or some harvesting points.

If you want to just end the conversation by saying "its not possible" then you are only limited by your imagination. as you can see, i found ways to solve a few issues in a quick little rant. Imagine what the devs could come up with using player input, past FF's and the drive to make it happen.

[abzoluut]

Guess Im one of few people who really detest underwater combat.

[MageBlack]

Guess Im one of few people who really detest underwater combat.

Well, you wont have anything to worry about for quite some time. Nothing has been officially announced regarding swimming aside from the fact they want to incorperate it at some point. No statement on what this will mean or how it will work.

May I ask what it is about underwater content you so greatly dislike?