Surecast - Allow Move-&-Casting

[Verlyn]

Very well. If you think that casting a spell while moving once every 30 seconds, would generate enough dps to necessitate a potency nerf, then the cooldown can simply be raised. There are multiple moving parts in this situation that can be utilized to retain your existing numbers without much hassle.

Not that either of us can accurately predict what would happen to Black Mage dps in this hypothetical situation. I think it'd just make dps easier--and that seems to be what your post implies as well.

But either way, at the very least, were this to happen, you'd have a new cooldown to use that generates new gameplay options.

As for improving the base job's rotation, that's fair--but also outside of the scope of the thread.

[Xisin]

its actually very easy to predict how buffs and nerfs affect numbers, and I also think that you severely underestimate the dps loss cost of dropping a spell mid cast to move, essentially rendering the dps output of blm to 0 for about 5 seconds, no other dps job in the game works like that. (spellcast start, 1.8 seconds in interrupt, move, spellcast start to finish estimated 2.3 secs average gcd)

We have plenty of options to avoid this, it isn't my fault, nor anyone else that players choose to not utilize them properly, or lack the game knowledge to utilize them properly. (Aetherial manipulation, manawall, manaward, surecast, and in minor cases swiftcast) That is 5 options.

Again the only thing that the surecast change would do is render really good blms near the same in combat (I'd use this for other things since I don't drop many globals such as kiting like bards but dealing gross dps), and bad blms mediocre, it is a "buff" that would not change the potential of the job but rather lower the skill ceiling of the job... and that isn't healthy for the job, both from a balance perspective and in order to keep the job interesting.

What people are proposing is this:

Sprint -> sure cast -> Raging Strikes-> unbridled 10 seconds uniterupted casting while sprinting -> Fire x5 + Swift Cast flare + convert then toss a scathe for good measure since surecast is over = 8-9k damage no crits, if it crits over 10k. Ya, balanced. you nor any monster is going to be able to chase that either so good luck. (Average RS fire in ii113 gear i115 weapon = 1200 damage per hit no crit, average flare in same numbers no crit = 1700 and thesen umbers will only increase with gear, and grossly increase at that with weapon upgrades.)

[Verlyn]

Surecast only lets you cast your next spell without interruption. You would not be able to cast 5 Fires uninterrupted while sprinting.
In an ideal world, we'd also add Swiftcast and Raging Strikes to the list of things that cancel Surecast as well.

[Xisin]

That isn't whats being proposed since the argument of "oh thats just swiftcast"

if the cd is unchanged since we're arguing that the text wont change either: 30 sec cd surecast -> check to see if refreshed (blms get a trait that can proc an auto refresh on the ability, happens enough to notice it too) you are asking for alot and at the VERY WORST an ability designed to not reward skill among players. Also abilities =/ spells.

Also: you can reverse RS and Surecast in that order if thats even the case and the swiftcast would happen after surecast wears.

[Verlyn]

I think if we're going to argue about this, then both of us should be working under the same assumptions. My post was working off of the OP's original proposal, which was just to allow Surecast to apply to movement-interrupting in addition to attack-interrupting. The end result isn't just another flavor of swiftcast because it's both a separate cooldown and you still have to deal with the casting time.

But regardless, this is a non-linear problem. It doesn't have to stay exactly how it currently is without changes. There are numerous possibilities besides simply replacing the ability with something else, which I'd only suggest if this thread were about doing such a thing. As it is, the thread provokes us to think of ways to improve it instead.

Your assertion that it's an ability that rewards skill poorly is a valid one. If that is your primary concern, then what would you do to fix this problem, assuming that removing it or changing it to another ability entirely isn't an option?

Not asking for answers, but ideas. Why? Because ideas are fun.

[BigPapaSmurf]

XISIN, dude just stop, we're all talking next spell (one spell) only per Surecast.

And we're open to tweaking the numbers.

[Xisin]

then what would you do to fix this problem, assuming that removing it or changing it to another ability entirely isn't an option?

Not asking for answers, but ideas. Why? Because ideas are fun.

I think the ability is fine as it is to be honest. There are plenty of applications to it which is why I don't get why people say its not useful, is it fun to use? not really, but useful? it is. It's why i bring scathe up since it literally has no practical use unless you're just messing around or messed up already.

[Verlyn]

I wouldn't say Surecast useless, especially in PVP but I feel like it's kind of underwhelming to use. It doesn't provide any visceral benefit. Like...think about it compared to Swiftcast. You see Swiftcast work, your spell comes out instantly, a little differently than when it's cast normally. You just don't feel Surecast being used. It's a very passive and uninteresting benefit for a cooldown, even lower on the totem pole than something that would just flat out increase a single stat for X seconds, in terms of design.

My thought is that allowing it to let you cast by moving would alleviate that, at least. Give it some tangible, visible benefit that makes it feel good to use. But I won't press further down that tangent since we've already had our back-and-forth on it.

[BigPapaSmurf]

Devs, can we please have this?