Goad

[Snugglebutt]

Until SE fixes the UI and puts TP bars in it (they have no valid excuse not to do so since you could just replace MP with TP for classes that use it and therefore not create larger UI which is one of the excuses been used), until then if you want Goad then you ask for it. The Ninja rotation is quite complex and has fairly high chance of messing up mudra's when not concentrating on top of being close combat so doesn't have the same luxury as bards and other ranged types...so if you want TP ask for it.

You could make a macro that can take half a second to click which says "Need TP" or something instead of dumping everything on the shoulders of other classes because you can't be bothered to click such a macro. Tanking classes according to most of my friends is one of the easier jobs in game so ask for TP as part of your job instead of forcing mine to be additionally being keeping track of your skill usage. If want me to know when you need it then SE can fix this very easily by adding TP bars to the party UI but until then ask for it or you wont get it.

If do not like that then too bad, cry me a river...but I have no intention of keeping track and counting how many times you use your skills when Ninjas already have a crap load more to keep track of than tanks do and it only takes you maybe half a second to click a macro which asks for TP. Seems to me everyone telling Ninjas to count the skill usage of other TP classes and telling Ninjas to add this to the Ninjas already quite tricky job are the ones being lazy not the Ninjas who saying that you should have the courtesy to ask for it when you want it.

[SeraviEdalborez]

The Ninja rotation is quite complex and has fairly high chance of messing up mudra's when not concentrating on top of being close combat so doesn't have the same luxury as bards and other ranged types...so if you want TP ask for it.

Boo hoo. Rotation is extremely simple. Overcomplicate it more.

[Fayto]

The Ninja rotation is quite complex and has fairly high chance of messing up mudra's when not concentrating on top of being close combat so doesn't have the same luxury as bards and other ranged types...so if you want TP ask for it.

Isn't good to lie, Ninja's rotation is easier than Dragoon's. You can go on auto pilot for most of it. They even have the luxury of not needing to be positional outside Trick Attack.

If was missing MP bars I bet many of you hypocrites hating on ninjas in here would be whining about SE not giving you that tool to do your jobs so put yourselves in the ninjas shoes and help fight for SE to fix the UI so we can get the benefit of a party TP bar much like you have an party MP one instead of just whining that ninjas apparently should cover yours asses because your too lazy to ask for something which is rarely ever needed in the first place.

Also why are you acting like we don't want the TP on the UI? Generalization much?

[Snugglebutt]

You can go on auto pilot for most of it.

If you think Ninja job is something you can go on autopilot for then your talking out your derriere.

[StouterTaru]

The Ninja rotation is quite complex and has fairly high chance of messing up mudra's when not concentrating on top of being close combat so doesn't have the same luxury as bards and other ranged types...so if you want TP ask for it.

You forgot to include reading the chat log. Clearly it's much easier to read the chat log, figure out who just asked for Goad, and give it to them than to have basic situational awareness.

If you want someone to ask for Goad, make sure you put it in a macro that has a /p letting them know that they now have Goad, because they can't be expected to recognize it on their own.

[LionKing]

Finally, I can vent myself for more:

@Fayto: I am sorry for being one of the many dumb people for not realising that all TP AoE cost would be roughly the same and that if you TP skill cost that much, the other class will be the same until I levelled my second class..Sorry for being stupid and not as smart and genius and brilliant as you are. I am sorry for used to think that the AOE skills of all the class would be paid by the cost of MP (my first class was SMN). I am sorry for used to think that all TP 's good for is for sprinting. I am sorry for used to think TP would increases as you lv up like MP. I am sorry for letting so many COMMON KNOWLEDGE/sense slip by. I am sorry for my ignorance. Paladin is a tanker, not a healer, you are ABSOLUTELY right. and Ninja is a DPSers, not your personal TP MONITORING ANALYSING, BACK UP AND RESTORE-ers, Automatic Operating.

@Asuka: Quote from myself "The one that really tick me off the most is people who required others to WORK HARDER for their sakes call them being lazy while they don't realise they are the one who is lazy". You asked me was it hard to Goad at the start ? I ask you was it really challenge to ask you to make a macro, click it and ask for TP when you need it? You are the one who made a fuss over the whole deal of Ninja not Goad you WITHOUT you asking. You said Paladin can not heal well? Hey it is still a Heal nevertheless. So how about Goad? It is not effective compared to LEARN TO MANAGE YOUR TP in the first place.

Before Goad, the world was NEVER involved around Goad, nor Goad is an ABSOLUTE need for any SR. Just because Goad is add as an bonus, it should be a COMPULSORY for a SR nowadays. And SR with a melee in a party? Really?

Point still stand: If u want something, A-S-K for it. You don't expect people to serve you food because of your stomach making a funny sound, you ASK for the food. You don't expect people to serve you drink, just because of your voice is funny due to hydration, you ASK for drink. Ninja is not entitled to you to serve you their Goad with NO asking. You are not ENTITLED to anyone to have them doing your way, know what you want WITH NO ASKING...

@To the guy above me:

Tank: Boo hooo. I am sorry, making a macro, and click it when I need it seems so much of a trouble or too much of a effort. Why don't you just read my thought and give me what I want instead, observe my actions, count my skill, knows about my TP as I am performing. Save me a lot of trouble there !!
Ninja/Me: Never !! I don't have the ability to read mind nor I give a damn about how is your TP. All I care is you keep aggro and if u want TP replenish, A-S-K.

Here is how I will deal with those types self-entitlement tank:

1/ First encounter:
Tank: Dude!! Where is your Goad??? You saw me pulling massive pulls and used OP like crazy. You should know I would run out of Tp and in need of your goad without me telling you.
Ninja/Me: I am sorry, it is on CD. I used it earlier when I soloed with my Chocobo. You know, seeing him using his kick like 10 times in a row and since I could not see his TP to tell exactly how much TP bar he has left. So I just used it on him, you know, for safety reasons

2/Second encounter:
Tank: Dude!! Your Goad should be Off CD by now and you would have guessed I would run out of TP real quick with all that pulls and spamming.
Ninja/me: Oh I am sorry, but I did use it. You sure you did not miss it? As I see you were pretty occupied with all the pulls and spamming while dodging the AOE and pop CD, also positioning mobs while keeping yourself not dying. Men, with all that things on the plate, I am pretty sure you would miss my used Goad but sorry, it is on CD now. Though I will use it again in the Duns, so please make sure you look for it. Please look forward to it.

3/Third Encounter:
Tank: Dude!! I looked, looked, and looked again and still saw your Goad not be used even once. I am pretty sure you never use it so far. With 100% positively certainty.
Ninja/me: Oh I am sorry. I was so occupied with all of my rotation, keeping buff/debuff up, while keeping myself in a safe distance, so I don't die or take dams to cause more work to our healer, while still maintaining my maximum output. I must have missed your Tp count, observation, sorry about that. What was it you asked again? Ah Goad, here. (Click on any random party member besides Tank).
Tank:....
Ninja/me: Oh I am sorry. I am so tired after all that and it seems it affects my skill of clicking. I give to the wrong guy and it is now on CD. Stupid me and I am sorry.

Too bad, I am sorry but no Goad for you, Tank!!!

@ the guy below me:

Compare "Internal Release", a self-buff, to "Goad", an utility, it is a fairly unfair comparison. On one hand, you will be marked as bad DPS for not poping any of your CD when able to, resulting your DPS is low. On the other hand, Goad is only used for TP buff, as an utility, to a very reasonable people, they won't mark you for anything whether you use Goad or not.

It is not about how hard or easy to use the Goad, but I more prefer to people calling Ninja out for not using them, then requested to know that their TP will run dry while there is no definite way to keep track of TP correctly is unfair and rather stupid. Whom should you use Goad on, when you should use it? They EXPECTED NINJA to know all of this without telling them a SINGLE WORD.

"You don't sit with Internal Release ready to go the entire dungeon because "There was never a situation where we would die if I didn't have extra crit. Use your skills, and use them on your own without having to be asked." Quote from your post. Based on your logic, Benediction should be used as well on a random player on a random time just because "There was never a situation where we would die if XyZ.." . Or you know "Holmgang" when you are full health, just because "There was never a situation where we would die if etc..."... And then afterward, when a actual situation raises, required you to use those skills, will you like "Oh shit, they are on CD"?

@Senfei:

My point of giving out the comparison between Holmgang, Benediction, and Goad is not because they are "Oh Shit" buttons in comparison with Goad, a normal utility. Strictly speaking in a Regular duns run, given everyone doing their job right, Tank is tanking, Healer is healing, Dps is Dpsing hard and fast, there will be HARDLY ever had a moment to resolve to these "Oh Shit" button. Therefore, to counter your argument, "You don't sit with Internal Release ready to go the entire Dungeon because "There was never a situation where we would die if..." ". In summary, the argument of just because there was never a situation of ZYX, it is ok to let your skill go WASTED is laughable.

We'll just agree to disagree then. Like I said, it only takes me half a second to make the connection between "I should AOE in this situation" and "Oh hey everyone else is AOEing too".

If this too massive a hurdle for some people, so be it.

We are not arguing about how long would it take you to set up the macro or how challenge for one to use it, it is not rocket science to figure out when one is in need of the TP, any good player out there can safely gauge that with little to no trouble. However, what I and people have been arguing so far is the attitude of people think they are ENTITLED for Goad while FORCING Ninja or Bard to know how they are doing with their own TP by FORCING them to work EXTRA HARDER, observing the tank or whoever, spamming their skill with no care in the world just because they have a Ninja/Brd in a party.

Like I said, in many many previous post, in the entire runs of my career as a Warrior Tank, strictly speaking in normal Duns run,whether it is SR or normal, I HARDLY EVER ask for TP, like EVER, unless things go EXCESSIVELY wrong. So I don't know why other tanks should yell or criticise, or be a jerk over Ninja/Brd to cover for their incompetent in managing their TP for a long run. Unless you are OVEREXTEND yourself, you should NEVER EVER seeing yourself of TP Starve, the same go for Healer, unless you are using BIG CURE, one should NEVER EVER seeing him/her out of MP to the point can not heal.

If able to help, we don;t really want to go into a massive hurdle like it is now but just because there are people out there feel like they are so IMPORTANT, ENTITLE that they should have what they want WITHOUT open up or click a simple click, being so criticise for that, we would not finding ourselves to defend our cause.

And here is one of the situation for those who think it is OK to let Goad WASTED.

A Ninja see a tank spamming OP. "Oh hey, he is spamming OP, he must have his Tp ran out soon", the Ninja thinks. "Here have a Goad, mate, and you are welcomed" and the Tank did not ask for anything. Then one way or the other, the tank dies. (for XYZ reasons), and he get raised. Now he need TP to spamming OP to get the aggro back but thanks to weakness, he does not have enough TP to do such thing. "Goad, Goad, Goad" the tank yells. "Too bad, dude, it is on CD now because I used it earlier", the Ninja reply. And because of failure of taking the aggro back from the tank and the unnecessary use of Goad from the Ninja earlier, the party then proceed to wipe. HAPPY ENDING!!!

P/S: Daily limitation post is suck.. .This post is getting too long. I will break it as soon as I get my chance. Sorry for any inconvenience.

[Senfei]

"You don't sit with Internal Release ready to go the entire dungeon because "There was never a situation where we would die if I didn't have extra crit. Use your skills, and use them on your own without having to be asked." Quote from your post. Based on your logic, Benediction should be used as well on a random player on a random time just because "There was never a situation where we would die if XyZ.." . Or you know "Holmgang" when you are full health, just because "There was never a situation where we would die if etc..."... And then afterward, when a actual situation raises, required you to use those skills, will you like "Oh shit, they are on CD"?

Benediction and Holmgang are "Oh sh--" buttons that save the party from wiping. Goad is a TP regeneration skill to be used on a party member as a support mechanism. If you can't see the difference in the use of Goad and the two skills you mentioned, there's not much else I can say. I think you are just arguing to argue, so whatever. The point is, Goad is a skill on your hotbar. It's not up to everyone else to tell you when and how to use it, you need to learn when and how. Paladins and Warriors shouldn't need to be told when to use Provoke, they should just know that "Oh, that stray mob is wailing on our poor healer. Provoke!". Ninjas should just know that "Oh hey this dragoon is spamming doom spike! Goad!"

You can sit here and argue that you have no obligation to use your skill, and that's fine. That's your call. You can just take goad off your hotbar completely if you want, who cares. The point is if you want to excel at being a ninja then you need to learn how to excel in the use of -all- its abilities, not just the one that make big numbers appear on the enemy.

[Kiokin]

The point is, Goad is a skill on your hotbar. It's not up to everyone else to tell you when and how to use it, you need to learn when and how. Paladins and Warriors shouldn't need to be told when to use Provoke, they should just know that "Oh, that stray mob is wailing on our poor healer. Provoke!". Ninjas should just know that "Oh hey this dragoon is spamming doom spike! Goad!"

This comparison isn't good. It's a tank's job to make sure things are attacking them. Provoke is necessary for them to do that. It's not a Ninja's job to restore people's TP, they just happen to have an ability that does that. You'd have an argument if TP was visible, as obviously a good ninja would glance and see someone is low on TP and Goad them, but as it stands now we have more to pay attention to than what skills other people are using in a mosh pit of spell effects. We have no obligation to use it of our own accord, but once it's asked for we do. So until the devs decide to make TP visible, if you want Goad, ask for it.

[Senfei]

We'll just agree to disagree then. Like I said, it only takes me half a second to make the connection between "I should AOE in this situation" and "Oh hey everyone else is AOEing too".

If this too massive a hurdle for some people, so be it.

[Kiokin]

We'll just agree to disagree then. Like I said, it only takes me half a second to make the connection between "I should AOE in this situation" and "Oh hey everyone else is AOEing too".

If this too massive a hurdle for some people, so be it.

Yeah, we could throw it on people when we start AoEing and risk wasting its benefit if the mobs don't live long enough for it to be necessary. Then you're stuck waiting 3 minutes when the time it could be useful could happen before then. It's really not that hard to just make a macro or type "goad." 6 keystrokes, you can do it.