How would you break it to someone that their DPS is awful?

[Darkstride]

Depends on the situation. If you're hitting DPS checks and wiping because of it, then something needs to change. I would still address it politely and see if they are open to a solution. The only reason to boot them is if they are unwilling to learn or progress and are holding the group from completing the task. In my experience people only get defensive if you are aggressive about how they play to begin with. Don't be a jerk.

If it's just a standard DF dungeon run and the DPS is low, causing slower completion, it really isn't the end of the world. You'll still get it done, some people just have little to no patience. It's Duty Finder, suck it up. See if they are open to constructive criticism, but of not, just push through, finish the Duty and move on.

If it's something more difficult like an Extreme or Coil, then they probably should have learned their job before attempting it. However, if they are inexperienced with the fights, they may be focused on learning mechanics and staying alive more than damage, but may be embarrassed to openly say so. It isn't always just because they don't know their rotation.

Again, I would still try to see what the issue is, as they may just be missing something that is an easy fix, but higher level content becomes a less forgiving situation.

I don't think an immediate "learn to play" and booting them is ever going to be a productive experience for anyone.

[Xatsh]

If it is a duty finder I view it as being something expected. Alot good players dps wise tend not to care as much in dungeons or CT/ST because the difficulty bar is just so low.

If it is a party finder marked as clear group or farming group. I would give them 3 attempts to put out the expected dmg then kick immediately.

If they are doing bad in Coil and are not showing signs of improvement. They need to be repped out due to the strict dps checks. Unfortunately the devs are taking a hard stance against parsers so none of that can be talked about. So it makes it where people get kicked told they suck too much and it has to stay at that.

IN a game that is based around DPS checks and Rotation style combat.... parsers need to be allowed.

[wicked-one]

Totally OT, but this Thread reminds me of Sheldons Coucil of Ladies

[OranKells]

I have been in the roulette with black mages that spam fire 3 and still use transpose; monks who would only do dragon kick- twin snakes-demolish. The response is sometimes understanding and eager to learn but I also get the "I don't tell you how to play your job" response

then I'll link my 100-110 weapon and they usually shut up and do as I say

[Tiggy]

I would let them be. No one is going to be great at everything.

We had a FC member who was quite honestly as awful as the OP's scenario. Every party would noticeably be hindered by their presence and it was detectable without any parsers. We let it be too and in the end you know what happened? He was always left behind on the sidelines because people started avoiding him for any and all content. This passive aggressive solution isn't a solution. It's running away and not dealing with it and in my experience it made things worse and made that player feel ostracized. Be direct and kind but don't ignore it.

[RiceisNice]

If it's just a standard DF dungeon run and the DPS is low, causing slower completion, it really isn't the end of the world. You'll still get it done, some people just have little to no patience. It's Duty Finder, suck it up. See if they are open to constructive criticism, but of not, just push through, finish the Duty and move on.

There's a limit to my patience to this sort of thing, especially if the player is capped (which shows they never bothered learning their class up to that point). They were trying to finish Stone Vigil for their animus book (so they even had Atma weapon, which at the time shows some degree of investment...or being absurdly lucky), but all they did was spam Venomous Bite and Windbite. That alone was able to extend what could've been a 20-25 run to a 50 minute run.

And considering that they were level capped, refusing to fix their dps (gave suggestions and everything and they responded back), all of my flags were triggered.

If it's out of ignorance or not knowing (new players mostly), then it's something that can be fixed. And hey, I've seen my fair share of 50s who legitimately didn't know their class mechanics until I pointed it out (monk positional) and they were able to fix it up. It's when don't bother to fix it up or throw the "I play how I want" card...well that's another mess all together. Hope you don't mind me slowing down your dungeon runs because I want to use sword oats or keep off defiance.

[Sessurea]

It wasn't until I got.....an abacus.....( xD ) that I realised how terribad my bards dps was. Was barely pulling 200 at i90 while a friend was doing 270. After a lot of close inspection and reflection I realised I was letting dots fall off, ending bloodletter animations way too early due to macro spam, and further, I realised my buff uptime was crap. Buff uptime, good Bloodletter usage and dot uptime are top of the list of important bard priorities.

Do I wish someone had told me this before I realised a few months after dinging 50? yes.But no, I don't feel it's peoples jobs to do this, and dps should eventually get to the stage of the game where they start to look very critically at their dps, get an.....abacus......and seek every possible way to improve it.

[vp_cmc]

Once I was told something like this:
he: your dps is terrible. Git gut.
me: ok, what exactly can I improve
he: I don't know, just git gut.

And after all, he was right, I managed to improve my dps 1.5-2 times on brd (some of it came from gear, so I can't tell exactly how much). But, I don't talk to him since then.

[Garlyle]

Honestly, take them aside and ask to see their rotation. Have someone else there that you know can play the class well there to offer critique and demonstration. Telling someone to Git Gud is necessary, but be willing to help them Git Gud and improve and you'll probably find them even more willing to actually do so.

[Crysten]

If I'm in a dungeon roulette, then I'm generally a lot more forgiving about this kind of thing and let people do as needed unless it's causing a detriment to the group. If I'm in coil or Extremes, I'm going to give people feedback on what they can improve on. If you're just plain bad, (hello all you DRGs that don't know how Heavy Thrust works!) you have no place doing top tier raids if you can't be bothered to at least learn the basic fundamentals of your job

If people're receptive to constructive feedback and are willing to learn and improve then I'm happy to keep them in my party. If they'd rather do unspeakable things to my mother, then they'll end up on my blacklist. Nothing lost in my eyes as they're not only terrible players but also the type I don't want to play with anyway.