Feint Skill

[Krausus]

Lancer is a DD/Support, you have to consider personal DPS vs. group DPS.
In NM fights, using Comrade in Arms will result in more WS from the whole party, using Moonrise II and Twisting Vice II will result in less DMG taken from tank/melee, so less stress on mages and more nukes, so Feint is just a waste of TP.
Also, Hawk's Eye, Still Precision and Keen Flurry are your friends, you're just not supposed to miss a WS :P and honestly I don't really care if I miss an auto attack.

I completely agree with this play style, though I am pumping out pretty good DPS my main focus is the group support.

[Aeyis]

Lancer is a DD/Support, you have to consider personal DPS vs. group DPS.
In NM fights, using Comrade in Arms will result in more WS from the whole party, using Moonrise II and Twisting Vice II will result in less DMG taken from tank/melee, so less stress on mages and more nukes, so Feint is just a waste of TP.
Also, Hawk's Eye, Still Precision and Keen Flurry are your friends, you're just not supposed to miss a WS :P and honestly I don't really care if I miss an auto attack.

If you have all those cooldowns available each time you use a weapon skill, your wasting your TP~ (and even then its not a 100% chance to hit)

Also, why does a high rank lancer mention comrade in arms when it comes to weapon skills and tp usage?
Its tp usage is low and it has a rather decent duration..
its not like its a skill that actually matters in terms of TP generation/drain.

The personal damage versus group damage is amusing.
People that support ''group damage'' always seem to forget that personal damage is a part of that same group damage. xd

[Krausus]

If you have all those cooldowns available each time you use a weapon skill, your wasting your TP~ (and even then its not a 100% chance to hit)

Also, why does a high rank lancer mention comrade in arms when it comes to weapon skills and tp usage?
Its tp usage is low and it has a rather decent duration..
its not like its a skill that actually matters in terms of TP generation/drain.

The personal damage versus group damage is amusing.
People that support ''group damage'' always seem to forget that personal damage is a part of that same group damage. xd

CiA increases TP generation it is relevant. If you don't provide adequate group support then you are a burden to your group and should be replaced by an archer.

[Noata]

lancers play a role in a group just as archers do. This for the group mindset seems a little out of place. The truth is a lancers moves inhibit, so even if they are trying to go for DPS they still aid the group. Everyones moves support a group. There should be no worry about supporting the group. the argument is on Fient and how it serves a lancer. It is cheap does decent damage and has a low recast. It is a good move for lancers. There is no point in arguing this with the flat statement of your not sapose to miss. Well no one wants to miss, It happens and will happen. I can guarentee you wont always hit. Since the lancer is meant to bring DPS and Debuffs to the group, being able to get a guarenteed hit after missing does nothing but Aid the lancer. It would be foolish to overlook a move like this because you want another 1000+ TP using Combat skill. Earlier there was a post about not caring about misisng an auto attack. How concieted can someone be to not realize that the entire reason they can use there TP skills is because that auto attack hit. Before you complain about how something is right or wrong. Have reasons why something is Inferior before you go disguarding it.

I know that this is not be the kindest of words and I am not specifically targeting anyone. I just am remarking on what I have observed over this thread.

[Krausus]

Have reasons why something is Inferior before you go disguarding it.

1. requires you to miss to activate.
2. acc is up missing happens way less now.
3. your argument about auto attack hitting is moot because feint has nothing to do with it, it misses you gain no TP and then you spend 500 to use feint.
4. your argument about inhibiting is moot since feint does nothing of the kind in fact using feint will decrease your inhibiting frequency.
5. there just isn't enough slot points to justify feint over something more reliable and useful.
6. with using pierce, full thrust, heavy thrust, invig II, CiAII, speed/life surge, twisting vice, heavy trammel, leg sweep, attack buffs, regiment buffs, healing, and enmity decreasing buffs on a regular basis finding time fro feint is not a priority, especially when you need that TP for better skills.

thats at least 6 reasons, I'm sure I could come up with more, I'm not saying no one should use Feint, just saying I will not be.

PS: your lancer is 26 at that rank I would use feint at 50 I would rather use other skills.

[Alcide]

1. requires you to miss to activate.
2. acc is up missing happens way less now.
3. your argument about auto attack hitting is moot because feint has nothing to do with it, it misses you gain no TP and then you spend 500 to use feint.
4. your argument about inhibiting is moot since feint does nothing of the kind in fact using feint will decrease your inhibiting frequency.
5. there just isn't enough slot points to justify feint over something more reliable and useful.
6. with using pierce, full thrust, heavy thrust, invig II, CiAII, speed/life surge, twisting vice, heavy trammel, leg sweep, attack buffs, regiment buffs, healing, and enmity decreasing buffs on a regular basis finding time fro feint is not a priority, especially when you need that TP for better skills.

thats at least 6 reasons, I'm sure I could come up with more, I'm not saying no one should use Feint, just saying I will not be.

PS: your lancer is 26 at that rank I would use feint at 50 I would rather use other skills.

Totally agree. It's not that Feint is completely useless, it's just that it's got low priority and during NM fights I'm way too busy doing more important things, so putting it in the action bar and paying atention to the misses in order to use it (spending 500TP) sounds like a waste of time to me.

Obviousely if you're doing grind or anything else it's a good skill.


Also...

lancers play a role in a group just as archers do. This for the group mindset seems a little out of place. The truth is a lancers moves inhibit, so even if they are trying to go for DPS they still aid the group. Everyones moves support a group.

Absolutely false. Take a look at lancer's skills and compare them to the ones of the other DDs, you just can't say we've got the same role of an archer. Also, not every Lancer skill inhibit, you have to chose well how to spend your TP, depending on your playstyle, wich can be pure dps or dps/support (wich I prefer)

There is no point in arguing this with the flat statement of your not sapose to miss. Earlier there was a post about not caring about misisng an auto attack. How concieted can someone be to not realize that the entire reason they can use there TP skills is because that auto attack hit.

You've got 3 different buffs for accuracy, you just can't miss a WS. If you miss an auto attack then you're not getting TP and it's stupid to use an ability that uses TP IMHO (always during NM fights)

The personal damage versus group damage is amusing.
People that support ''group damage'' always seem to forget that personal damage is a part of that same group damage. xd

You really want to compare the amount of DPS the whole party will bring after CiA to Feint dmg? the TP cost is the same...
Also, keeping CiA and Moonrise II always up, spamming Twisting Vice II and joining BRs with Doomspike II I find it hard to belive you have the time to do anything else.

[Noata]

Ouch, getting attack hurts. but atleast it yielded results
However I would wish you would focus more on the Fient skill. as several of your reasons where picked from different parts of my post, which had nothing to do with the fient skill, but rather response to earlier posts in the thread.
1. Has to miss... that is the basis of the move.. cant you pick something like TP cost...
2. Accuracy is increased less likely to miss. once again not saying its always used but convienent to get extra dps.
3. CP cost, at lvl 34 my pugilist can have more then there entrie classes abilities, allowing for moves from other proffesions
i would like to think a lvl 50 would be able to do this as well.
I wont pretend to understand dps and how it is done at lvl 50. but i will say the ffxiv community has been theorizing and coming up with there own ideas and passing them as if they were facts. I really find it hard to believe having a bunch of moves you need to wait to get tp for should take priority over some other moves. Also since you can have life surge or speed surge, is it really necisary to have both on a bar. Life surge is for soloability. As a meager rank 26 Lancer even i know this. I will give you two points why you wont use the skill, because the first about missing is its entire purpose
your accuracy is high, and your bars are full of other cp moves. I am sorry that I seem like i am attacking back. I sorta am because i looked at your list and say you just took pieces of what i said and threw them in numbered order. some of which... my bad most of which had nothing to do with the move. I understand you dont use it. I think it depends on the situation. there is no absolute right or wrong setup. So i will let this thread die, I dont see anything productive coming from it

[Aeyis]

CiA increases TP generation it is relevant. If you don't provide adequate group support then you are a burden to your group and should be replaced by an archer.

You really want to compare the amount of DPS the whole party will bring after CiA to Feint dmg? the TP cost is the same...
.

I know it happens a lot on these forums, but try to read what i actually typed.

Why are you mentioning CiA in the same breath as direct damage skills at all?
As i said before, its a debuff that has a low TP cost, and it lasts for a good amount of time.

It's TP cost over time doesnt begin to compare to that of any direct damage skill.

Or if that isnt spelled out enough:

CiA should be used period, and as such it serves no purpose at all to mention it when discussing TP uses of damage skills.

Back on topic:

Considering that Feint is a purely situational skill (you need to miss/get evaded for it to even be available for use),
saying that its useless outside of those conditions is kind of besides the point..

[Holyomen]

Feint is awesome when you're solo.
Red Lotus can't miss too, but it costs MP, twice as much TP, and does less damage than Feint.
Optimal time for using Feint is after multi hit abilities. Multishot, Barrage, Flurry, etc sometimes don't get all their hits in, so it's nice to follow it up for extra damage using Feint.

But if you're in a party or raid, then Feint's usefulness is diminished.

[Krausus]

you are making a lot of assumptions, you can not compare how many abilities you can equip or want to use at 34 to 50. At 50 I dont have enough CP to equip everything that I want.

as for life surge it decreases your targets evasion, so it is useful outside of solo, I use it for the first hit to debuff the target then I switch to speed.

the points that had nothing to do with the move are points that YOU brought up, I simply stated they where moot points, none of my post was an attack, it was merely a response to your statement in which the response was correct.

Again at 26 it is a good skill, at 50 it is inferior to other more needed abilities.