Increase DF speeds by setting weekly lockouts per role

[Einheri]

The problem with DF ques for dungeons is the 4 person party, that must consist of one tank, one healer, and two dps. If you look at this slide from the Census 2014 ( http://imgur.com/a/pEzlr#8 ) that shows the role distribution among the player base, you can see that DPS are 38%, to 10% tank, and 7% healer. So DPS are nearly 4 times as prevalent as tanks, and more than 5 times more prevalent than healers. Adding more tank jobs and healer jobs, won't necessarily mean more people will play those roles, though some might be enticed to switch from DPS to those roles if they are exciting enough. The only sure fix would be a six man party for dungeons with 4 DPS, one tank, one healer or a combination of DPS and Support (should they ever be added).

The job distribution slide would be a better indicator of the classes played relating to PVE content. 12% PLD 9% MRD =21% of combat classes are tank. Fairly close to the desired 25% make up for the DF make up. Again 14% WHM and 10% SCH = 24% healer. Pretty damn close to the 25/50/25 tank/dd/healer make up.

As I said in earlier posts; Player personality and social behavior have a greater effect on who tanks and how they go about getting a grp. FC>LS>FL>PF>DF

[Shadowkept]

The job distribution slide would be a better indicator of the classes played relating to PVE content. 12% PLD 9% MRD =21% of combat classes are tank. Fairly close the the 25% make up for the DF make up. Again 14% WHM and 10% SCH = 24% healer. Pretty damn close to the 25/50/25 tank/dd/healer make up.

If that was an accurate representation of where the community is, then why do tanks and healer enjoy nearly instant ques? Rog/Nin aside, DPS have long suffered much longer que times. The only other explanation would be that DPS "need" to run dungeons more than the other roles or it is somehow more beneficial for DPS to spam the DF. Also, just because someone has a job leveled doesn't mean they actively use it for DF. For example, I have both tank jobs at 50 and never tank. So I think role distribution slide more accurately captures what is being "actively" played.

[Einheri]

If that was an accurate representation of where the community is, then why do tanks and healer enjoy nearly instant ques? Rog/Nin aside, DPS have long suffered much longer que times. The only other explanation would be that DPS "need" to run dungeons more than the other roles or it is somehow more beneficial for DPS to spam the DF. Also, just because someone has a job leveled doesn't mean they actively use it for DF. For example, I have both tank jobs at 50 and never tank. So I think role distribution slide more accurately captures what is being "actively" played.

All you are doing is watering down the numbers with irrelevant data. Hand and Land jobs can't que for dungeons. They are mutually exclusive to the sample size. You can gather while waiting in que. Its great for those long que times DPS suffer from. Please read my entire post and apply your own logic. You can only look at the available population.


Its really simple you have a 100 players.
21 of them choose tank
55 choose dps
24 fill healers.
so you can only fill 21 party's leaving 13 dps in que and 3 healers.
(Healers gen don't have instant que but no where near as long as DPS. And Right now there are more DPS because of the new hotness NIN it sques against DPS ques.)

Those left over now have to wait the length of the dungeon in que for the tanks and healers to finish their run. Upon leaving the tanks reque and immediately get a new grp and the last 13 dps and 3 healers to reque now have to wait the length of the dungeon while the original dps waiting in que get to play their first.

This is where you get the AVG wait times that seem way off. You may be DPS 14 that had to wait 30 mins for your first que. Or you could have been dps 1 and 56 and got lucky with two no waits. or you could have been 42 and 97 and had one no wait and one wait.

p1-Man i have been waiting in que for ever as dps.
p2-Really? I got in like in 10 seconds.

Ever have that convo in guild?

That is a gross over simplification.

That and tanks & healers are sought after and have a much easier time getting a grp with out using DF. IE I want to run with a bard and blm and WHM. I can choose them to go with me. Now you as a drg don't get to play but the dps I took don't have to wait or worry about DF and you lost out cause of your class. (this is not something I like just making an example I am sure you have seen plenty of time it gen shouts and PF reqs)

Again, as a Tank before I que I ask my FC or LS if some one wants to leech my que (i que with my SCH buddy most often) so that removes more tanks from the que. Why party with strangers when all your friends want to party with you?

[Dhex]

I cap my Poetics on PLD and I stop using the Roulette for the week. Generally that's on a Tuesday.

If I had separated Poetics caps... I'd cap PLD & WAR & SCH & WHM - & work on all my DPS Jobs after those were done.

So I'd probably be in the Duty Finder and Roulette a lot more.

[Shadowkept]

Your scenario is very probable though I haven't seen any such conversation in my FC (usually just rants about long ques). However, I am asking do you disagree that adding more DPS to the current party makeup by increasing party size would decrease the que for DPS? Because that is my point. Do you think we'd see the reverse where tanks/healers are forced to wait in que for enough DPS if the party makeup was 3 or 4 DPS for every one tank/healer. It seems on Balmung (and I don't know anyway to prove this) that you can que for ST far faster than 4 man content, and I am talking about the time it takes the que to match 8 people together not the time it takes people to be smart enough, aware enough, our just at their keyboard to click the button to enter. BTW census slide #36 breaks the role distribution down w/o DoL and DoH as 13% Healer, 19% tank, 68% DPS. So why do tanks and healers a combined 32% get the same party representations (2 slots) and the 68% DPS (2 slots).

[Shadowzanon]

Nope dont like it.

[Fyrebrand]

I can't for the life of me figure out how this proposed system is even supposed to work.

* If you apply the weekly cap to Tank and Healer roles, you may have those players switch over to DPS, which is just going to make DF queues worse.

* A player who is only interested in being DPS is not going to suddenly play a Tank or Healer just because of this system. You can't force people to play a role they don't enjoy. Personally, I happen to play a Healer as my main, but I have tried tanking in the past and it is frankly just never going to be my thing. If I hit my cap on Healer, I would go DPS if I had to. This is the opposite of what you wanted.

* Depending how many hours per week they play, or how they spend their time, some people may not even reach the cap by the end of the week. People who play DPS will naturally reach their cap the slowest, as their dungeon queues are significantly longer. I'm leveling a Rogue alt right now, and dungeon queues are 75+ minutes long, if I ever get in at all. The worry that I may hit a "cap" on dungeons is completely alien to me.

* There are other things to do in the game besides dungeons: PvP, Hunts, upgrading your Relic weapon, daily beast tribe quests, crafting, etc. Hitting the weekly cap on endgame tomestones does not necessarily mean people will happily just queue for dungeons in DF with a new role. They will more likely just play other content and play less dungeons for the rest of the week.

* You assume people who only play DPS even have a Tank or Healer ready for max-level dungeons. But that's not necessarily true. They will have to go back and level one. Even if you implemented this weekly cap tomorrow, it would be a while before we saw any results. But even so, they may go back and simply level another DPS to pass the time, until the weekly reset.

[LegendWait]

I increase my DF time by playing tank or healer, whatever rewards more. I'll level my ninja by fate grind on the side.

Problem solved.

Everyone should have a geared tank. It would help cure that tunnel vision syndrome in roulettes.

[KaitlynOfOz]

Everyone should have a geared tank. It would help cure that tunnel vision syndrome in roulettes.

I've healed some of those tanks and i would prefer they stayed on their dps class. Don't get me wrong, some of quite good, but there is just no incentive for someone to go into a roulette with a tank alt unless they are FC peeps or friends.

[Zarzak]

Would have to triple the cost of everything. Or make the caps 150. Otherwise people would be full geared in like 3 weeks.