Undercut Hell

[Aunalise]

It's meaningless to undercut by huge g, thinking you've taught the 1g undercutter (UC) a lesson. Their strategy is to out-update. All you did was to contribute g to the next buyer to show up. I may let UCs go, if it is 1 item. They get a sale, and the 2nd buyer to come along gives me the extra gil on the next sale. Plus 1g UC may resume, and keep the price level higher for a while longer than jumping down to an UCs price level. Other times I continue 1g UC from the lower level. Then at some point I will exit & watch. Sometimes, 'everyone' ends up exiting a market that is pushing below-costs prices. Then I check back, the prices are high again, and I re-enter. Or I simply know from long observation what the multi-month avg price is, & when the current prices go low enough, I snap up everything too low & hold it. Eventually, I can sell for 2-5x my buy-in, depending. Just don't try this without knowing what the long term avg price is, and having patience.

[Aunalise]

The correct price is what it sells at. Don't get mad at others because you failed to accurately guage the demand of a certain item. You made a mistake, move on to something else.

wrong, unless you left a lot unsaid... With 1-time undercutters, the correct price is likely not the 1g they posted a 40Kg item for. In an MMO, 350Kg items just fall into your lap. In an MMO, people get hissy about 1g undercuts and drop the price by 10% 'in retaliation'. Mistakes and massive undersells do not accurately represent current supply or demand. Knowing what the short and long term avg price of an item is will allow you to make a better decision on whether to buy up an undercutter, or in turn, undercut them, since you know that the avg is higher or lower than the current price.

[Aunalise]

One thing for me is if there are several items up for say 10k and someone puts one up for 9999 I will buy the one below it for 10k.

I do that too. 9999 is just an untidy way of saying 10000, so I buy the one that was listed first to be fair to the seller (and because I like round numbers). Undercutting by 1 gil is the market equivalent of a kill steal. If I've made a seller happy then I feel good about it.

But I undercut by 1g someone who posted at 10001g, or 8001g several times this week alone. Now you just bought from me!

It's all arbitrary. Buy whichever one you want, but don't assume you have exercised some moral principle by buying a particular price level, whether the previous price was 1g higher, 98g higher, or 786g higher. Why not buy the most expensive one on the market? You will engender the greatest happiness and realize the most un-earned self-righteousness and false sense of moral superiority. Win-win!!

[Aunalise]

This thread is so entertaining!

If you undercut me by 1 gil I'm going to drop it 10k til you stop. Put it at the same price if you want but the 1 gil stuff is beyond annoying and I'm not going to stalk the boards to play your 1 gil game.

I never buy th 1 gil undercutters.

OP talks about maintaining the economy. You know when I go to the vending machines down the hall... All of them sell drinks for the same price.

LOL. Love to find someone who would undercut by 10k every time. At some point I buy the item from them myself, turn around and realize more profit from it than they just did when I bought it.

A vending machine is owned by one guy or company, and he sets ALL the prices on everything in it. The Board is 1000s of people selling the same items at different prices because they each value them differently. The 1g undercutter may value it at 40K less than current market price, but he isn't going to leave 40K on the table if he's smart.

[Aunalise]

There's lots of talk about supply and demand, and demand at certain prices... blah, blah, blah.

FFXIV MB is not RL. For many items, there are 0 to 4 or 7, or maybe 10 or 15 buyers per day on average. Most every one of these buyers would buy at a huge range. They aren't price sensitive. They don't care about history. They don't wait for a deal. I can show you people who bought VENDOR items at 50-100+ % above vendor price on the MB. Any night for the last two weeks I could grab an SS of that. So the market is more about being the low priced item right when that next buyer comes along, period. Coming in and selling at 30% lower isn't getting a sale any faster, since everyone was really just waiting for that next buyer to show up. (Yes, there are items where there is some price sensitivity, usually because it is high-gil item, or maybe it is a high-volume craft item. But still, it's not like there are hundreds of buyers who will suddenly buy if the price comes in 10% lower, like in RL)

[Aunalise]

Scenario 1: You just made an easy 175k, you should be happy

Agree. Love it when someone contributes 175K to my account.

Scenario 2: you are attributing to the undercutting war just as much as the other guy. Sounds like you should be patient... This will happen with items that have little demand.

Disagree some. He is only contributing 1g at a time. Others are doing it at 10Kg or more at a time. You just ignored the point he made. If it is something that is selling slowly, then yes, undercutting a lot might find a quick sell/current going price level more-quickly, or may jump well below it. Anyone selling repeatedly in a market needs to learn the avg price level. Then you can 'know' that the 200K price is truly a 175K undervaluation, or not. If 200K is below mat cost, then that is a straight-up gift. Buying it is like buying the raw materials at a bargain. Never complain about that.

[Aunalise]

Some people take taxes into account when undercutting and want to be the lowest price no matter what nation the buyer is buying from, so 1 gil is not always the most sensible option..

If the tax so much greater than travel costs, buyer should be travelling to the correct city before buying, or the seller should sell one in each city to grab the sale that way. You should never leave 5K or 10K or 40Kg on the table if sales are quick just to be a whole 5% cheaper than the next higher price (to accommodate the tax difference). And of course, the whole point of the OP is that undercutting the 5% tax-rate each time vs 1g each time is just stupid, because you often aren't just giving a 5% discount to a buyer, but more like 15% or 20% before the next sale actually happens. Of course, at that point, it may be a flipper who sees that they can make 10% to 15% profit.

[Aunalise]

"Correct Price" A true story.
US chem mfr started selling an item below a German cartel price in Europe, 'violating' the Cartel's territory. They tried to cut him in on the action. He refused. They then thought they could undersell him in US and put him out of business, and sold the item like crazy... all they could make. But really, US chem mfr was just buying from them and then reselling in Europe at his original European undercut price, still making a profit. The thing is that he made money both ways, by under-bidding the Cartel's high price, and by buying up the too-low undercut price, and marking it up.

Moral of the story? FFXIV MB isn't like RL. Tens of buyers who are not very cost-sensitive don't really help set accurate prices. Neither do price-insensitive sellers who just had the item fall into their lap. BUT, you can still buy out gross undercutting and profit from it.

[Lux_Rayna]

Undercutting is fine, its how you make your sale, being the top of that list.. but do it by sensible ammounts and stop ruining the economy.

If you believe in a free market, then you are aware that the economy is self-regulatory. It is impossible to "ruin" it, as any and all extreme fluctuations will correct into stability. What you mean by "ruin" has nothing to do with the economy and everything to do with your profit. I don't blame you for being bitter, but to say the economy is being ruined is patently false.

This thread is full of salty would-be profiteers. Price wars are a part of competition. There is no rule that says someone has to play the "1gil" undercut game with you until a buyer shows up. I'd rather hit a price point where I know there is significant demand and call it a day. Gil/hour is all i care about. Worrying only about profit margin is for rookies. High volume selling is a legitimate and consistent strategy.

[Melondra]

Undercutting is fine, its how you make your sale, being the top of that list.. but do it by sensible ammounts and stop ruining the economy.

and I am not interested in any trolly comments they won't be read or responded to, I put this up because I believe its valid and the sensible people here will agree[/QUOTE]
Im glad im not the only one that agrees on this a Blind Auction must be implemented in order for this game to survive. As for you FANBOY's out there im glad half of u were not in Alpha or beta or this game would be even more screwed up.