[dev1022] Defining Auto-Attack and how it relates to MMORPG.

[Akumu]

I believe the best solution is a compromise that has been mentioned in several other threads on this subject.

Basically, make "auto-action" a setting that can be toggled on or off, and that can be configured to use any action that the character currently knows ... be it Light Slash, Levinbolt, Guard, or Cure. The cooldown for the abilities would determine the rate that they triggger, and naturally if you don't have enough Stamina, MP, HP, or TP to pay the cost the ability will not trigger.

Those who do not want to use it, do not have to use it. Those that do, can.

This is like the best possible solution and I will add if it can be mapped to buttons or macros it will make trying to chat in the middle of combat a lot easier. Instead of having to go into menu and config to toggle it off and on.

[Shewp]

As i've stated previously FFXIV needs to have a combat system thats different from other mmo's if it wants to succeed in the market. I think it would be amazing if they made the battle system like Demon Souls - active attacking/blocking/aiming/dodging. It would be different from TERA in the sense that it would be slower and more tactile.

Please, please, please have an interesting battle system.

[kukurumei]

This is like the best possible solution and I will add if it can be mapped to buttons or macros it will make trying to chat in the middle of combat a lot easier. Instead of having to go into menu and config to toggle it off and on.

But it would make a mess of the battle system we have. Optional is never a good thing when it comes to battle dynamics.

I rather they turn auto attack as a "auto skill" with a skill set of its own.

Let's make light attack and light stab an "auto skill" for instance, or change it to heavy stab/slash, etc. which the latter will increase all skill stamina usage.

Then separate TP base WS, which I refer to "instant skills" that purely rely on TP and none on stamina.
and
regular skills which are purely stamina/mp. Thus making Stamina an ATB we're all so familar with.

This would allow make the ground work for a system kind of like FF11, but more modernized, where auto attack can be changed on the fly, but will always "proc" for the intense feeling.

While you have game changers like stamina skills that are strategic.

Finally the TP skills (WS) are what you would consider, limitbreaks theories.

So in summary,

Auto attack skills (Able to switch back and forth, but proc at a pre-set rate)
Stamina skills (On cool downs and stamina requirements, stamina regen might also need to slow down)
TP skills (Only based on TP, which TP will accumulate slower) aka limit breaks.

And you can bring back a SC system this way or a BR system that only rely on TP skills.

[Demacia]

But it would make a mess of the battle system we have. Optional is never a good thing when it comes to battle dynamics.

I rather they turn auto attack as a "auto skill" with a skill set of its own.

Let's make light attack and light stab an "auto skill" for instance, or change it to heavy stab/slash, etc. which the latter will increase all skill stamina usage.

Then separate TP base WS, which I refer to "instant skills" that purely rely on TP and none on stamina.
and
regular skills which are purely stamina/mp. Thus making Stamina an ATB we're all so familar with.

This would allow make the ground work for a system kind of like FF11, but more modernized, where auto attack can be changed on the fly, but will always "proc" for the intense feeling.

While you have game changers like stamina skills that are strategic.

Finally the TP skills (WS) are what you would consider, limitbreaks theories.

So in summary,

Auto attack skills (Able to switch back and forth, but proc at a pre-set rate)
Stamina skills (On cool downs and stamina requirements, stamina regen might also need to slow down)
TP skills (Only based on TP, which TP will accumulate slower) aka limit breaks.

And you can bring back a SC system this way or a BR system that only rely on TP skills.

This actually sounds very solid to me. It should be noted.

[Masamune]

"If combat is so undesirable that it needs to be automated, then something other than auto-attack is needed to improve it."

This is very true.
I am very happy with the current battle system. It involves the player so much more than FFXI ever seemed to. I despise the thought of an auto mated system. If anything I would want more thought and significance put on basic attacks themselves. Have chain attacks with sequential timed button presses. Give different classes different attacks. Mrd with an aoe swing is a start so far. Give lancer jump, pug a counter, etc.

Get rid of all these unnecessary abilities, make the weaponskills something you bust out crazy damage with, and make them beautiful and different.

I have no trouble talking between fights, and don't want to talk while I'm in them. I want to be immersed in the beauty, excitement and gore that is combat. Let the weak talk while I lop their limbs off.

[Nephera]

what if we lower passive stamina regeneration a little but but made your basic attacks regenerate it, this is essentially what champions does.


oh wait hold up if we just got rid of stamina we'd be doing almost exactly what champions does.


Edit: and thats not a bad thing it works pretty solidly

[Vaymathias]

I'd like auto-attack, sorta like FFXI style. A lot of the time it's too difficult to talk to people when your in combat, and sometimes it's important. It would also allow me to think about more important commands in battle, focus more on positioning(I expected it to be more important) without hindering me while using a mouse and keyboard.

I can see having an auto attack, that every time you hit the enemy you generate a little bit of stamina. You would naturally generate stamina up to a point, slower than currently, but not lose it like you do now with TP(I really hate that).

Then every weapon would have 2 or 3 stamina using attacks. For instance, Pugilist would have Jab, Cross, and Kick(roundhouse maybe), each using different amounts of stamina, and chaining them together would be similar, if not exactly like Deathblows from Xenogears (I think it would feel very different in this semi-active/turn based system than in a purely turned based system).

This would give you access you all of your weapon skills without having to slot them, only you would need varying degrees of stamina to use them.

Gladiator would be different. Glad without a shield, would have Light Slash, Light Stab and Heavy Slash, but with a shield would have Light stab, light slash, and Shield Strike. This would give a Sword+Shield Glad a few different Ws's than a pure Sword Glad, but they would both have access to some of the same. This way you could give the former more tank supportive attack like a high hate generating attack and give the latter one that does a lot more damage.

This would allow us to have an auto-attack with the benefits that it brings, and still allow us to be more involed than in FFXI.

[Gun_Anam]

I'd prefer to have no auto-attack. The way the system is at the moment requires tactical use of skills where you have to ensure you have enough stamina reserve to use follow-up skills. We have a good system, but...

It may be acceptable if they added an auto-attack skill which can be added to the skill bar whereby it attacks until another skill is used, however costs no stamina and generates no TP. That way we could keep tactical use of stamina and TP generation. In addition it would not be fully automatic meaning when I want to buff up mid-fight for a heavy attack the buffs won't be wasted on some auto-attack.

Something like this might keep both camps happy.

[origamikitsune]

But it would make a mess of the battle system we have. Optional is never a good thing when it comes to battle dynamics.

I rather they turn auto attack as a "auto skill" with a skill set of its own.

Let's make light attack and light stab an "auto skill" for instance, or change it to heavy stab/slash, etc. which the latter will increase all skill stamina usage.

Then separate TP base WS, which I refer to "instant skills" that purely rely on TP and none on stamina.
and
regular skills which are purely stamina/mp. Thus making Stamina an ATB we're all so familar with.

This would allow make the ground work for a system kind of like FF11, but more modernized, where auto attack can be changed on the fly, but will always "proc" for the intense feeling.

While you have game changers like stamina skills that are strategic.

Finally the TP skills (WS) are what you would consider, limitbreaks theories.

So in summary,

Auto attack skills (Able to switch back and forth, but proc at a pre-set rate)
Stamina skills (On cool downs and stamina requirements, stamina regen might also need to slow down)
TP skills (Only based on TP, which TP will accumulate slower) aka limit breaks.

And you can bring back a SC system this way or a BR system that only rely on TP skills.

^ One thumb up. Two if you keep the BR system and just tweak/edit it.