I can see the argument if it was only one, but they are giving people THREE strikes. Is it really so hard to be more careful after you have two already?
I can see the argument if it was only one, but they are giving people THREE strikes. Is it really so hard to be more careful after you have two already?
The best solution is if a person withdraws from a queue, the queue does not break up the whole group and instead finds a replacement for those who timed out. Those who clicked "confirm" would not have to click it again, they would just stay with the confirmation window up. The game would only break up an existing group of people who already clicked "confirm" if it could not find an immediate replacement. Anyone who withdrew would store a list of groups they recently withdrew from and that person would not be added back into any of those same groups.
But that's more work, so it's better to identify where this was a problem. The only places I saw this were CT/ST, expert, and low level. A common theme between all 3 are that the rewards are heavily stacked at the end of the dungeon, this causes people to fish for in progress in those particular dungeons. There are a number of ways to deal with this sort of thing. One option is to just give them what they want and get them away from everyone else by adding in progress only. This way all the in progress fishers will be removed from your queues forever and will never effect you. There is concern that this would add to the queue times because all the tanks or healers would only queue for in progress. But if all the tanks and healers queue for in progress, then they're going to have to wait a long time because there's only so many in progress dungeons that will be available. They might as well just do the dungeon normally since it will be faster as they already have near instant queues. You'll also probably get more people participating due to the in progress option. Some people won't do certain content at all because the rewards are not worth the time invested (low level comes to mind), but you will likely get more tanks and healers looking for "easy" queues which will increase competition. The result is likely a negligible effect on queues in exchange for a flexible system that lets people do what they want.
You could also obscure the in progress value in the same way that CT/ST does by only displaying 0/1 no matter what the actual progress is. A problem that exists is it can be difficult to fill 0/3 in progress dungeons. You're risking joining in progress on a likely dysfunctional group that hasn't made any progress. Those fishing for in progress are looking for 2/3 or 1/3, this would prevent allowing the in progress fishers from being able to fish for those specific dungeons. This prevents that while helping 0/3 groups that need some help. If in progress only was added, I think this should also be added.
Or you could just not display the fact that a dungeon is in progress at all. Although, I would caution against this. Sometimes people will ask their FC/linkshell for help with an in progress dungeon. It's nice to be able to identify that the queue that pops up is actually in progress so you can help those who you want to help. I know some want to be able to invite friends directly to help in progress runs, but I think that's ripe for abuse (voting out your current dungeon group members because you want to invite your friends). So it's nice to have some way to link those who need help with those who want to help without the direct invite option, and I think this accomplishes that.
Even with the above you can still have people trolling the queue because they have nothing better to do. But a shorter withdraw penalty (5-15min) with a shorter reset period (1-3 hrs) would curb most trollish behavior. For the most dedicated trolls it should be easy for SE to identify people who are *constantly* withdrawing and have a GM check their behavior to put them in timeout. This is also a good idea even if you add some way of directly curbing the practice of fishing.
And lets face it, the primary offender here was CT/ST. While other categories can be subject to in progress fishing, the number of people in CT/ST can mean that players even withdrawing for "legitimate" reasons can cause a number of resets for some people. So it would be better to limit the existing 3/day > 30min penalty to just CT/ST to specifically target *that* problem. Someone who got a strike from going to the bathroom during a particularly lengthy guildhest queue (where the queue estimates are often innacurate) doesn't deserve the strike as much as someone who withdraws from an ST queue after a 30sec wait. The system and its punishments should reflect that, it currently doesn't.
Or just break up the penalty enforcement by category. Trials, 24 man raids, pvp, low/high/expert dungeons, that sort of thing. Again, it was particular categories that were problematic. Withdrawing from ST 3x within a day causes you to be locked out of ST/CT for 30min.
Finally, even WITH the current system, the group penalty should only be inflicted on the individual who withdraws. Group trolling is a made up issue. Punishing people to prevent a problem that doesn't exist is stupid. Ready checks only work when the queue starts. Sure everything works fine if the queue is instant after the ready check, but that's not always the case (had to wait 15min to help out someone do Ramuh HM for story with a partial group that had 2 tanks, for instance). Being punished for the mistakes of others is a bad idea that's only going to lead to more animosity between players and this game does NOT need that.
Last edited by Giantbane; 11-03-2014 at 10:07 AM.
Just joined a trial duty in progress 0/1 and there was only 1 person left inside, so I leave.
Re-que duty, get 0/1 progress again, so I decline.
30 minute lockout.
LAME!
Moral of the story: no longer join duty in progress.
They mentioned that it was only 1 of the party members. I can definitely see with how many different parties some people are in with party finder that they can easily get 3 lockouts from randoms.
I had this issue the other day. I was ready for a dungeon, the person downstairs decided they wanted to start Netflix, which destroyed my ping, and the queue popped just as I 90k'ed. no one got locked out, but I felt horrible.
I was ready ofr the dungeon, but due to circumstances beyond my control, my internet connection wasn't. the penalty should have been applied to me, not my entire party.
again, sometimes you have 3 withdrawls for different reasons, then you aren't the one who gives yourself your third. I would be pissed at this too.
Last edited by tocsin; 11-03-2014 at 01:21 PM.
If you need to go AFK for any reason and don't trust the party to do a ready check, switch to a DoH or DoL class, state what you need to do real quick, then go do it. Might not solve everything, but it will help protect innocents.
Duty Finder has no tracker icon or indicator showing the number of withdrawls? Do party-wide withdrawls count towards a single player? Do a single players previous withdrawls count toward the party they join?
It seems to me they went with the least intellegent fix on this issue. Did they consider triple withdrawing while in a party as an offense that can be reported?
Seems like a mess to me.
It should be adjusted but all and all I'm loving it. (anyone up for McD's)
Commendations.
If I play dps I only give it out to other dps.
If I play tank I only give it out to healers.
If I play healer I only give it out to tank.
Only if they should be getting a commendation.
There are always exceptions to the rules!
Fine as it is
AFK miss it once: fine, it happens
AFK miss it twice: better be careful
AFK miss it three time: figure your life out
Larek Darkholme @ Ragnarok
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