"If your progression SCoB party requires to shift away from 2-2-4, you have a leak"

[Grotesque]

I throw up this phrase for discussion. It is not targeted to clearing groups, because they can do whatever makes fun once they have a turn down, but it is targeted to progression groups.

As you can see on Coil Savage, the "dev-intended" way to do Coil is the common 2-2-4 setup. However, it is also common to do 1-2-5 for T8/9 progression. IMO, if your party requires such setup, at least someone is not pulling its full weight. I encountered this with pugging T9 apart from my static raid, e.g. "Can you solo heal First/Golem phase, because we need our SCH to DPS to get golems down fast enough / to only have 4 Meteors, ..."
Yes, I can but in my mind it only means "if your party REQUIRES the SCH to DPS, your DDs are mediocre", however I don't complain when I'm a guest.
In our static, with many weeks of progressing on T9 (due to person exchange, vacation, real life stuff...), every single person of our group learned very much about his class to maximize its output, thus we're able to do 4 meteors, 1 add with the standard 2-2-4 setup with everyone having 110 weapons. But it took us really some time to get on this level of playing while getting used to the mechanics.
What is your opinion or what does your group do? Sticking to 2-2-4 and practicing on the weak links, or switching to 1-2-5 to get the kill done asap? IMO if you have a weak link, it has to be stepped up and you shouldn't rely on your group members to compensate for you. I mean if your group is not strong enough to get 1 but 2 adds with 2-2-4, then I think it is ok, learn how to handle 2 adds instead of forcing 1 add with another subpar group setup. When we were progressing we made a strategy how to handle 2 adds and now with being able to push 1 add, we made up another strategy but never moved away from 2-2-4 to force 1 add from the beginning.
As said, this is not targeted on clearing groups but on progression ones.
As a result for me, I won't pug or be a fill-in on groups which require to use the non-standard setup, because I can assume their DDs aren't on their A-Game.

[Lollie]

You are looking at it incorrectly, groups do not go into progression with a 1-2-5 or even 1-1-6 (less likely in a learning group)setup because dps is to low to accomplish the basics of the fight. They do it because they have identified the extra defence or heals is not necesary to acomplish the fight normally. Using the more common altered party setup, if you have 2 tanks and you only need 1, the second tank is now just a half powered dd (assuming equal skill/gear). Why not at that point just bring in a full powered dd?

Your example of having 2 adds is mute, that is a timing issue and is gonna hurt regardless of party setup if you have an add and claws and field hazards all going off at the same time.

[AxelDH]

The thing is, if you have the ability to solo tank/heal a fight, then there's usually no benefit to having more tanks/healers, other than as a safeguard should mistakes happen. On the other hand, dodgy phase pushing aside, you can never really have too much DPS. If you can meet a DPS check with 4 DPS, you can meet it even faster with 5.

[Avalon_Albrook]

What Lollie said. For example, my group started with two tanks in T9 and we very quickly learned it wasn't necessary, as I was soloing Nael the entire time, only one golem actually hurts, and pulling a ghost to me only hurt for about 6 or 7 seconds. The OT was essentially bored throughout the fight and him going monk instead was the universally agreed choice.

[SeraviEdalborez]

We have a mediocre BRD and still have always pushed everything with 2-2-4, so I'm inclined to agree with OP.

[LionKing]

Maybe they have not yet have full BIS gears yet. In the couple of our first weeks of t9, our Scholar Dpsed, just so we could push with 4 meteor. And people still we're learning the rotation, so you know...Plus RNG in this game, you know already how it works

[mero-ix]

We've always done solo tank in T8 because we never saw a reason to need two. I haven't tried solo in T9, though; we've never had an issue with only 4 dps. And having a back-up tank has saved us a couple times, haha.

[ruskie]

Well our static sadly has one tank... the other person with tank doesn't really much care for tanking so we have even been learning t6 with a solo tank(atleast until my tank is at that point(and I am enjoying tanking so far)). We got down to 45% before people messed up(we were still learning the basics of the mechanics) but it was a PITA on healing. Sometimes doing something differently can be more fun as well.

[Synestr]

I see the point being made about more DPS is better for faster kills/quicker phase pushes etc., but OP said they asked if he could solo heal so the >SCH< could DPS. If they wanted that 5th DPS and only one heals, they should have advertised that way. Had the 5 DPS slots filled then asked for a pimp to step in and solo heal.

That to me is the issue. Even though he / she was contributing some DPS, the SCH was getting a "free" ride. SCH in or not in clerics, depending on spec, is no where near as powerful as a full, dedicated DPS.

Just my take,

Syn

[Skapoc]

The 1-2-5 setup for t9 pugs/progression groups usually boils down to groups thinking they need to do it exactly the way clear groups do it with 4 meteors, golems dead way before megaflare countdown, 1 ghost etc. The thing is you don't need that kind of DPS to clear the fight and these groups never clear or get to the last phase to practice or finish it thanks to the tank getting popped thanks to lack of cool-downs or a healer/dps getting popped when the single tank can't pull the dragon to him. Even worse is when claw pops the tank it ends the fight right there where 2 tanks would still allow you to continue the battle. The fight can safely be done with 5-6 meteors, 2 ghosts and *gasp* even a third heavens fall(I know I have done it on an alt). It's a ton safer going 2-2-4 learning the entire fight front to back even if you hit the enrage timer then never getting to the last phase. After your group feels safe with every mechanic, knows where they can maximize there dps, where to stand and what to do you can go to the 1-2-5 setup if you feel it would speed things along.

Sometimes I really wish these groups would just accept the 2 tank strat and maybe you would see more people clearing the fight.