The cycle of disbanding that keep casuals from doing content

[Kallera]

I personally don't understand it. I've been on the forums for quite some time, and if you've been a regular on topics, I've posted many unpopular opinions. Want to guess how many times I've been harassed?

I'm willing to bet we have similar numbers, in the realm of 0.

[Dwill]

From this thread, must have somehow missed it.

Yes, someone's own anecdotal evidence. After the proof people have been showing and you criticizing it, that's your proof ? Seriously ?

I personally don't understand it. I've been on the forums for quite some time, and if you've been a regular on topics, I've posted many unpopular opinions. Want to guess how many times I've been harassed?

Heck, I must be in the Top 5 most hated person on this board and I've never been harassed not received a threat nor anything of the like. Seems like an exaggerated excuse to garner sympathy.

[Ghishlain]

but you should be chastising those that abuse that kind of muddled wording a lot more readily, e.g.

Do you know why people are directing their ire specifically towards you? It's because you are a stonewalling stubborn poster who lambasts anyone who disagrees with your opinion. You lambast anyone who even remotely goes against your mentality of "the greater good" and according to your posts, you're only capable of discerning white and black of a situation, and nothing in between.

While your opinions are commendable, your approach is not. You cannot throw out the baby with the bath water. While you have a point that some raiders are indeed self serving and rude, you are also proving yourself a truly ignorant and naive white knight by exclaiming your strong desire to be all inclusive and allowing everyone to clear content. Your blinders have never come off and it shows with various posts putting a massive swath of a community instead of directly addressing the subsect of that community. When someone disagrees with you, instead of having a reasonable discussion about agreeing to disagree, you pound the gavel and decree that that those posters are toxic elitests / trolling forum posters. Of course people are going to take offense to that as you basically spitting in the face of their achievements and successes by lumping them into this overall negative category. How do you expect someone to take you seriously? Your hypocrisy can be found in this thread alone with how you accused Tiggy of being a clear seller and quoting BobtheBlackMage in the same post (while selectively cherry picking specific lines of a post to suit your rhetoric).

So, let's once again be realistic, there will be a section of players that will unable to clear content due to their skill level. You have not made any attempt to address how people should be helping this section of players aside from basically "CARRY THEM TO VICTORY" because, unfortunately, that will be the only way those people will see that content. Tell me.

SE does not set the standard on player ethics or sportsmanship. Clear selling has NOT be outlawed, but I am lobbying SE here to have a solid case to make it a ban-able offense. I don't have hard evidence, but it would be naive to believe that all that gil from clear sells is NOT funneled thru RMT sellers somehow.

You will never have hard evidence of this. With that being said, I agree. It would be foolish to think that all clear purchases are bought with legitimate Gil. With that being said, why should clear sellers being lambasted for providing a service? They shouldn't have to care how the Gil was made, just that they are providing a service. While you haven't made the claim, I do not suggest you make a claim that all clear sellers are in kahoots with RMTs to profit together. Again, it would be naive to not think of one or two FCs doing so, but broadly generalizing ALL clear sellers into that category will be another error in your judgement, if you decide to pursue that course.

I don't understand why is so hard to provide some useful practice-able advice for the OP, but so easy to want to defend the clear sellers? This makes no sense at all.

Advice has been given, but I will expand on that further as the single best advice anyone can give is "become more marketable".

-Understand your role, abilities, and capabilities. Going to a static a leader and saying "Please invite me, I do good DEEPS!" is no way to get an invite. Have a conversation with that static leader, see what their desires are, see how you can fit in with their dynamic, keep trying until a leader talks with you.
-Do a lot of content on your server. If you are truly worth the salt you believe you to be, people will notice. Join EX Primals, whether learning of farming, converse with people, get exposure and make a name for yourself. Reputation is important and will make or break your chances.
-Make friends. This is especially true if you can make a good tank (or two) and a healer. If you can get two tanks and a healer on board, guess what? The rest will fall into place easily. The challenge herein is making contact with these people who are looking, which falls into getting more exposure as stated in the previous point. More exposure means more opportunity to ask people if they are interested in Coil. Additionally, if you get this core group, starting learning groups will become much easier as the more important roles are already accounted for.
-As mentioned earlier, start a learning LS indicating you'll accept any and all members for learning and use this to filter your player base and test them. You can start filtering your players and picking whom you'd like to Coil with consistently. There are plenty of capable players, you just need to give them the opportunity to congregate into one location.
-Never be afraid to ask. If you have exposure and experience, but not the clear, just ask the leader "Can I join? I've seen down to 10% of this fight but haven't cleared it yet". Some players are very happy to see that extra 100 Sold now
-Above all else, NEVER GIVE UP - If you give up before you begin, you'll never reach your goal.

[Exstal]

OP did start a linkshell for this. It was posted on the Behemoth server thread.

[Lord_Zlatan]

From this thread, must have somehow missed it.

cuz its the one post in a sea of posts that actually agree with you >.>

[Snugglebutt]

That's just about how it will be. Endgame requires a bit of dedication to it. Learning the mechanics, downing the fight after many attempts. If you're slow at learning, or incapable of dedicating the time to learn the ins and outs of the fight... You're pretty much out of luck. The skilled(and those with a lot of time) are rewarded, while those who lack those get left behind.

Second coil is not endgame, final coil is endgame for the time being while second coil is old content just like trial hard version vs extreme version. Second coil should of been added to to DF in 2.4 without a full pre-made group requirement when final coil came out but SE failed to make it so. They will probably do it in a later patch or expansion but they should of already done it the moment final coil came out.

[AlexionSkylark]

So, I've been off the thread for a while, glad to see the discussion and debate going on, hahah.

So, the main reason I created this thread was because I was flabbergasted about how people in PF would quit a learning group that has steadily progressed from wiping in the first 20 seconds of the fight to getting steadily to more than 50 or 40%... thinking the next group (who WILL be fresh) will be a better one. Like someone said on page 31 (or was it 32? so many pages haha), there's no ammount of videos and written guides that can make up for having "in loco" experience on a fight. And if you join a learning party on PF, it's quite obvious and expected that at least half of the people there never set foot on the fight, and WILL mess up stuff while they are understanding the fight in reality. That is EXPECTED. However, people expect a clear in 2, 3 wipes tops. And while it's completely impossible to go from newbie to veteran in 3 wipes, no matter how many videos ppl watched, people still expect that from learning parties, and still go away calling people noobs and such. And my point is... THAT MAKES NO SENSE WHATSOEVER. I REALLY doubt that those experienced people killed Rafflesia in 3 wipes with their statics.

Again, my point was less about the "why nobody joins my learning group" and more about "why people join a learning group and leave because it wasn't a farm?"

That being said, here's an update: I formed a little community on Behemoth, the "Endgame Brotherhood". It's comprised of a whatsapp group, a facebook group, and a Linkshell. Unfortunately Real Life kept me away from the game a bit (Last week was my anniversary with my GF, also starting a new theatre course), but I lurked in the shadows there and noticed several people got their Primal Ex and T5 clears through it, and it made me really happy to know I'm making a difference for others (tho I'm still stucked in T6 hahahah... but that comes with being a casual, I suppose).

Anyhow... carry on. This discussion is bringing a lot of viewpoints and maybe a better solution will come out of this... Maybe we can even get a red post on the matter, if this gets enough attention? hahahah.

[Aylis]

I cannot, you cannot, nobody in this thread can dedicate their play-time in its entirety to helping people.

You're dealing with someone who I honestly believe doesn't fully know or understand the whole "being inclusive" to newer players. If they told the truth in another thread where they said this was their first MMO then maybe? Being inclusive is a two way street and effort is needed on both sides. Maybe they never heard of searching FC/LS sites online and playing the game of "which place looks best for me to fit into and start the ball rolling of sending tells like "Oh hey I really like your FC, I'm new to raiding but want to learn and try" I like helping people when I can, I love doing it actually! Sadly though I need to have some backing before I offer just so I know said person isn't either looking to troll me or harass me. Usually with me, just seeing you in one of my linkshells is good enough of a reason for me! ^^

So I dunno their view of "being inclusive" do they mean the new players that are willing to do the foot work to show they are real and nice people? Or do they mean helping every single random "Help please! I'm NEW!" thingy in the world?

[Lord_Zlatan]

Alexion, that is a really good idea.

Probably going to do the same on my server. Glad to hear things are looking up!

[Aylis]

That being said, here's an update: I formed a little community on Behemoth, the "Endgame Brotherhood". It's comprised of a whatsapp group, a facebook group, and a Linkshell. .

That's amazing! I'm happy to hear things are working out well for you in your new group! ^o^